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  1. #1
    Veteran Member KeithInSpace's Avatar
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    Fred'burg, Virginia
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    Kubota BX2230

    Default Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    The trailer in question is a used 2010 P&J 28' deckover trailer that my brother is looking at.

    The trailer is absolutely 100% a 14k# trailer. It has 7k# axles, 8 lug wheels, properly rated tires, and is built like a tank.

    I called the P&J dealership in North Carolina that originally sold the trailer and they said that in North Carolina, you need a Commercial Driver's License to pull a trailer rated for more than 10k#, so it is routine to "de-rate" the trailer if a Regular Joe is purchasing.

    The trailer is now in Virginia and Virginia doesn't have this silly law. Nevetheless, the trailer is now Virginia titled at 9,990# and the sticker on the tongue says the GVWR is 9,990#, even though the SAME sticker states the axle ratings at 7,000# each. Stupid.

    It is a real shame, because my brother can pick it up for $4,200...a SCREAMING deal for a 28' 14k# deckover trailer with no dovetail and slide-out ramps. It even has a tongue-mounted equipment box.

    MY QUESTION:

    Does anyone know if my brother can take this stupid thing to DMV and have it properly titled/rated at 14k#?

    He's going to be pulling his new kubota MX5100 with backhoe. That machine and his box-blade will be something around 8,500#, so he is going to be using all the capacity.

    Thoughts?
    Kubota BX2230, FEL, Woods BH, 60" MMM, Bagger, 4' Box Blade, PHD, 8' x 20' 10k# Dovetail Trailer

    Those of you who think you know it all are particularly annoying to those of us who do.

  2. #2
    Veteran Member JESSE1's Avatar
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    Kilgore, Texas
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    JD 6400

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    You may be able to call P&J with the trailers' serial number and explain the situation to them. If it is built with the same materials as the 14,000# trailer they may be able to issue a new data plate for the trailer. Call the manufacturer and see what they say.
    6400 John Deere w/ cab, JD 535 Baler, 997 ZTR Diesel, 72" 7 Iron deck, John Deere 855D 4x4 Diesel Gator

  3. #3
    Super Member JB4310's Avatar
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    Central CT
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    J.D. 4310 E-hydro

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    That company surely makes trailers tagged for 14,000 lbs, so there must be some way to get them to give you documentation that it was built as such.

    Some people do want them derated to avoid that 10k threshold, but an equal number of people need them rated for the correct higher loads.

    Around here DMV does not look at the paper work to determine what weight to register them at. So alot of guys just buy the 14K trailer and register it 10K. But I guess it would be easier to derate than to try and up rate them, could be serious trouble if you got inspected or in an accident etc.

    JB
    JD 4310; E hydro, 300CX, 48 BH, 60" box, 72" rake, 72" rear blade, cast pallet forks, 48", 61"HD & 73" high volume bucket.
    FORD 1700; 2 WD, 2600 hrs.
    JD 320; Hydra lift, 48" deck and 48" snow blade.
    2007 Dodge Ram 3500, Cummins 6.7L, Aisin 6 speed, 9ft utility body.

  4. #4
    Super Star Member Diamondpilot's Avatar
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    Daleville, IN
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    Jinma 254/284 Ford 861 Powermaster at work

    Default

    Buy it, lose the title and data plate and submit the paperwork for it as a home built. Done it a few time.

    No way PJ will work with you. Too much liability plus they are not in the business of helping folks get by, they are in the business of selling NEW TRAILERS.

    Chris

  5. #5
    Elite Member Skyco's Avatar
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    SC/NC

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithInSpace View Post

    I called the P&J dealership in North Carolina that originally sold the trailer and they said that in North Carolina, you need a Commercial Driver's License to pull a trailer rated for more than 10k#, so it is routine to "de-rate" the trailer if a Regular Joe is purchasing.
    That is not exactly correct. One does need a different license in NC to pull a trailer with a GVWR over 10,000 lbs but it does not have to be commercial.
    NC has a class A license which is available as a CDL OR non commercial. One or the other is required to tow a trailer over 10,000 lbs GVWR.

  6. #6
    Veteran Member flyingcow's Avatar
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    aroostook county maine

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondpilot View Post
    Buy it, lose the title and data plate and submit the paperwork for it as a home built. Done it a few time.

    No way PJ will work with you. Too much liability plus they are not in the business of helping folks get by, they are in the business of selling NEW TRAILERS.

    Chris
    Done this myself, easy to do. I'm with Diamondpilot.
    TN75D, w/cab, FEL, BH
    7 1/2 ft Lucknow Blower

  7. #7
    Epic Contributor Soundguy's Avatar
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    ym1700, NH7610S, Ford 8N, 2N, NAA, 660, 850 x2, 541, 950, 941D, 951, 2000, 3000, 4000, 4600, 5000, 740, IH 'C' 'H', CUB, John Deere 'B', allis 'G', case VAC

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    in florida you can tag 'up' .. but remember it don't change the physical characteristics of the item being tagged.. however if it is a 14k, and tagged 10, in fl, you could tag it back as 14.

    every time I renew my truck and trailer tags they ask me if I want to change my weight...

    Quote Originally Posted by KeithInSpace View Post
    The trailer in question is a used 2010 P&J 28' deckover trailer that my brother is looking at.

    The trailer is absolutely 100% a 14k# trailer. It has 7k# axles, 8 lug wheels, properly rated tires, and is built like a tank.

    I called the P&J dealership in North Carolina that originally sold the trailer and they said that in North Carolina, you need a Commercial Driver's License to pull a trailer rated for more than 10k#, so it is routine to "de-rate" the trailer if a Regular Joe is purchasing.

    The trailer is now in Virginia and Virginia doesn't have this silly law. Nevetheless, the trailer is now Virginia titled at 9,990# and the sticker on the tongue says the GVWR is 9,990#, even though the SAME sticker states the axle ratings at 7,000# each. Stupid.

    It is a real shame, because my brother can pick it up for $4,200...a SCREAMING deal for a 28' 14k# deckover trailer with no dovetail and slide-out ramps. It even has a tongue-mounted equipment box.

    MY QUESTION:

    Does anyone know if my brother can take this stupid thing to DMV and have it properly titled/rated at 14k#?

    He's going to be pulling his new kubota MX5100 with backhoe. That machine and his box-blade will be something around 8,500#, so he is going to be using all the capacity.

    Thoughts?

  8. #8
    Gold Member
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    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Skyco View Post
    That is not exactly correct. One does need a different license in NC to pull a trailer with a GVWR over 10,000 lbs but it does not have to be commercial.
    NC has a class A license which is available as a CDL OR non commercial. One or the other is required to tow a trailer over 10,000 lbs GVWR.
    What you say is partially true, but it also is not exactly correct. You only need the Class A license if the total combination GVW is over 26,000 AND the trailer being towed is over 10,000 lbs. So an 11K pickup towing a 14K trailer does not need a Class A in NC. Same for a 25K truck towing a 9K trailer does not require a Class A or Class B. Almost all states are like this, although there may be a few exceptions (CA??).

    So, you can see there is an advantage to a 9,900 lb titled trailer in that you can tow it with a 26K truck and no special license. It can also help to keep your combination weight under 26K when towing with trucks rated up to 16K GVW.

    From the NC Driver's Handbook, Pages 11 and 12:

    Regular Licenses

    Class A Required to operate any
    combination of vehicles exempt from CDL
    requirements with a gross vehicle weight
    rating (GVWR) of 26,001 pounds or more,
    provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being
    towed is greater than 10,000 pounds.

    Class B Required to operate any single
    vehicle with a GVWR of 26,001 pounds or
    more that is exempt from CDL requirements, or
    any such vehicle while towing another vehicle
    with a GVWR of 10,000 pounds or less.

    Class C Required to operate any single
    vehicle that is not carrying hazardous material
    in quantities required to be placarded or is
    designed to carry no more than 15 passengers
    including the driver with a GVWR of less than 26,001 pounds; or any vehicle towing a vehicle which has a combined GVWR of less
    than 26,001 pounds operated by a driver at
    least eighteen years old. Most drivers need
    only a Regular Class C license to operate
    personal automobiles and small trucks.


    As far as changing the titled weight the process probably varies from state to state. I doubt if PJ will help you out even though I have seen that they offer the 9900 option on the heavier trailers. If you go the home-built route they may want to see receipts for all the parts, have it go thru an inspection, etc. Otherwise what would stop someone from taking a stolen trailer and registering/titling it as home-built.
    Last edited by downslope; 01-20-2012 at 10:08 PM.

  9. #9
    Super Member JB4310's Avatar
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    J.D. 4310 E-hydro

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by Diamondpilot View Post
    Buy it, lose the title and data plate and submit the paperwork for it as a home built. Done it a few time.

    No way PJ will work with you. Too much liability plus they are not in the business of helping folks get by, they are in the business of selling NEW TRAILERS.

    Chris

    I was thinking the same thing, but with all the modern rules and regs I wasn't sure what kind of inspections they would have to put him through.
    I have one home made trailer now and had another one in the past, but both of those were single axle no brakes 2-3 ton trailers.
    Not sure how they would look at a home made 7 ton equipment hauler???

    From what soundguy says, it sounds like FLA is like CT in that you tell them what the trailer will be registered at. But like he says you better be sure every component is rated for 14K. Like a chain only being as strong as it's weakest link, if they under built any part of that trailer knowing it was going to a state where it only had to meet the 10K mark. Probably not the case but something to consider.

    JB
    JD 4310; E hydro, 300CX, 48 BH, 60" box, 72" rake, 72" rear blade, cast pallet forks, 48", 61"HD & 73" high volume bucket.
    FORD 1700; 2 WD, 2600 hrs.
    JD 320; Hydra lift, 48" deck and 48" snow blade.
    2007 Dodge Ram 3500, Cummins 6.7L, Aisin 6 speed, 9ft utility body.

  10. #10
    Super Member JB4310's Avatar
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    Central CT
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    J.D. 4310 E-hydro

    Default Re: Can you "up-rate" a new trailer from 9,990# to 14k#?

    Quote Originally Posted by downslope View Post
    As far as changing the titled weight the process probably varies from state to state. I doubt if PJ will help you out even though I have seen that they offer the 9900 option on the heavier trailers. If you go the home-built route they may want to see receipts for all the parts, have it go thru an inspection, etc. Otherwise what would stop someone from taking a stolen trailer and registering/titling it as home-built.
    I was wondering about a very invasive inspection and parts verification process too. But not to prove it wasn't stolen, but to prove it was manufactured to the 14,000 lb standard that it is being registered for.

    Prove your engineering and manufacturing standards like the factory builders have to. I didn't have to do that with my little home builds, but this is a different case.

    JB
    JD 4310; E hydro, 300CX, 48 BH, 60" box, 72" rake, 72" rear blade, cast pallet forks, 48", 61"HD & 73" high volume bucket.
    FORD 1700; 2 WD, 2600 hrs.
    JD 320; Hydra lift, 48" deck and 48" snow blade.
    2007 Dodge Ram 3500, Cummins 6.7L, Aisin 6 speed, 9ft utility body.

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