Axle location question

[joshuabardwell]

I appreciate your being polite but I am indeed correct. You might want to reread your manual or look at your sticker on your hitch. If it came from the factory, I would bet it too is rated for 500-600 lbs without a weight distribution setup. I advise you to take your own advise and look up your specs.Jeff

Here is a link to the ball mount that I'm using: Ball Mount 5" Rise or 6" Drop. Note the tongue weight: 1200 lbs, 10% of the rated tow weight.

If you look at this page, you can see the towing specs for my truck: Dodge Towing Guide. Please note this text at the bottom: "However, the maximum tongue weight on Class III (The bumper ball) is limited to 500 lbs, and Class IV (The receiver hitch) to 1200 lbs." So, if I use the bumper holes, the tow rating is limited to 5000 lbs and the tongue weight to 500 lbs, just like your truck. If I use the frame-mounted receiver hitch, the tow weight is just over 13,000 lbs, and the tongue weight is 1,200 lbs. In all of these cases, the tongue weight comes in right around 10% of the tow weight.

Hitch is rated for 11500 lbs with a weight distribution draw bar and 5000 lbs without.

All you're telling me here is that you have a hitch that is specced smaller than your truck. My guess would be that you have a class III hitch (5000 lbs / 500 lbs is a typical spec for a class III hitch). Your truck can handle up to 11,500 lbs, which means that if you put a class IV hitch on it (typical spec 12,000-13,000 lbs) OR if you used a weight-distributing hitch, then you could max out your truck's towing capacity. Also, notice that on your placard, the tongue weight for both weight-distributing and non-weight-distributing is exactly 10% of the rated tow weight, which is what I'm saying.

Honestly, we could both be correct, because you say that most hitches are rated at 500 lbs tongue weight, and I would bet that most hitches you and I see are Class III. I just think it's more correct to say that the hitch tongue weight is usually about 10% of the rated tow weight and leave it to the towing person to figure out what exactly that is.

 

[jejeosborne]

Here is a link to the ball mount that I'm using: Ball Mount 5" Rise or 6" Drop. Note the tongue weight: 1200 lbs, 10% of the rated tow weight.

If you look at this page, you can see the towing specs for my truck: Dodge Towing Guide. Please note this text at the bottom: "However, the maximum tongue weight on Class III (The bumper ball) is limited to 500 lbs, and Class IV (The receiver hitch) to 1200 lbs." So, if I use the bumper holes, the tow rating is limited to 5000 lbs and the tongue weight to 500 lbs, just like your truck. If I use the frame-mounted receiver hitch, the tow weight is just over 13,000 lbs, and the tongue weight is 1,200 lbs. In all of these cases, the tongue weight comes in right around 10% of the tow weight.



All you're telling me here is that you have a hitch that is specced smaller than your truck. My guess would be that you have a class III hitch (5000 lbs / 500 lbs is a typical spec for a class III hitch). Your truck can handle up to 11,500 lbs, which means that if you put a class IV hitch on it (typical spec 12,000-13,000 lbs) OR if you used a weight-distributing hitch, then you could max out your truck's towing capacity. Also, notice that on your placard, the tongue weight for both weight-distributing and non-weight-distributing is exactly 10% of the rated tow weight, which is what I'm saying.

Honestly, we could both be correct, because you say that most hitches are rated at 500 lbs tongue weight, and I would bet that most hitches you and I see are Class III. I just think it's more correct to say that the hitch tongue weight is usually about 10% of the rated tow weight and leave it to the towing person to figure out what exactly that is.

First off I completely agree with the 10%. I will not dispute that. I also am only talking about the reciever hitch on the truck and not the ball mounts.
The picture I took is of the reciever hitch that came mounted on my truck and nothing to do with the bumper. You need to open your manual and I promise you that your hitch is also rated at 500-600 lbs without a weight distribution setup unless it has been replaced with an aftermarket hitch. My hitch which is a class IV hitch is actually rated for 200 lbs more than my truck 11,500 minus 11,300 lbs. On the link you posted, click on the "towing basics" link in the top right corner. Then select "trailer weight classes". You will see that your class IV hitch as well as most every other class IV hitch requires a weight distribution hitch for towing loads in this range (greater than 5000 lbs). You will only find this information in your manual or the hitch itself but it is there. Also please read the link I posted it will help as well.

Here is an additional link for the OP that I started a while back where I did similar axle work.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/projects/237522-popup-camper-conversion-toyhauler.html
Jeff

 

[joshuabardwell]

You need to open your manual and I promise you that your hitch is also rated at 500-600 lbs without a weight distribution setup unless it has been replaced with an aftermarket hitch.

Unfortunately, my manual doesn't have towing info, and the hitch itself doesn't seem to have a placard (although I haven't gotten under the truck and looked to see if it's there). I'm pretty sure it's a factory hitch, though.

On the link you posted, click on the "towing basics" link in the top right corner. Then select "trailer weight classes". You will see that your class IV hitch as well as most every other class IV hitch requires a weight distribution hitch for towing loads in this range (greater than 5000 lbs).

As much research as I've done into towing specs for my vehicle, and I can't believe I never saw that before. That's really surprising. What that seems to be saying is that, if you don't intend to use a load-balancing hitch, there is no difference between a class III and a class IV receiver.

 

[jejeosborne]

Unfortunately, my manual doesn't have towing info, and the hitch itself doesn't seem to have a placard (although I haven't gotten under the truck and looked to see if it's there). I'm pretty sure it's a factory hitch, though.



As much research as I've done into towing specs for my vehicle, and I can't believe I never saw that before. That's really surprising. What that seems to be saying is that, if you don't intend to use a load-balancing hitch, there is no difference between a class III and a class IV receiver.

In your manual on page 294. It says:

"Equalizing hitch are required for Class III or IV trailer
hitches and tongue weights above 350 lbs (159 kg) and
use of trailer sway control is recommended.".

I was wrong, your 3/4 ton is only rated for 350 lbs and not 500-600 lbs. I am really surprised it is that low.

http://www.ramtrucks.com/en/owners/manuals/

 

[handirifle]

I bought a 3500lb complete idler axle with springs and hangers for $220 and 15" tires mounted on white steel rims for $75 each delivered to my door. Tax and shipping included from Great Wolf Trailers - Distributor of Trailer Parts, Landscape Racks, Truck Parts

The owner was very helpful and everything arrived perfect.

I will though warn you just one more time that the simple 60% rule may not work with your tractor. No room for error and 2-3 inches will make a significant change in that short of distance.

PS no attitude taken so no need to apologize but appreciate it.
Jeff

The "warning" wasn't ignored, just not acknowledged. I would like to ask how one would "adjust" the CG with a loaded trailer? I have no way to put the tractor on there as of now anyway (mentioned that in first post, sort of) and even if I did, I cannot move the axle to test your theory. So I am at a loss on how to accomplish this. The only thing I could do (if I got the tractor on there) is weigh the current tongue weight. Probably would have been a good test with the 1 3/4 pallets of sod I hauled home from Lowes, but didn't think of such a test then, hindsight I guess. As mentioned, the tractors weight is not even distributed, probably not even close the the sods distribution, being the FEL and engine are both up front, most of the 1500 (or so) is right up there.

Also, someone mentioned "the tow ratings on my truck is 5000lbs" not true, according to the owners manual, for my exact model/year/configuration, it is 6700lbs. Wasn't sure if that was just a reference number or what. I cannot find any reference on the door tags to GCWR, but GVWR is 6600lbs and rear axle is rated at 3750, don't remember front rating. It is factory tow pkg.

I do have 2000lb overload springs on the rear, and I do know the rear axle rating is based on a lot more than springs, but this does reduce some of the burden on the rear springs.

 

[joshuabardwell]

In your manual on page 294. It says:
My Ram Trucks: Ram Owners Service Manuals - Ram Cars, Minivans, SUVs

That's interesting. That's not in the manual that's in my glovebox, but I'm not the original owner of the truck, so it may not be the original manual. Thanks.

 

[joshuabardwell]

But wait... something isn't right here, because the manual shows a GVWR of 6500 lbs there, and my vehicle placard shows 9000 lbs. Also, they show GAWR of 3600 and 3900, but my vehicle placard shows 5200 and 6010. I think we can both agree that the info printed on the placard on the door of the vehicle is 100% authoritative. The manual's information is not matching up with my truck's info. Those specs seem to match more closely with a 1500, and I wonder whether they use the same manual for a 1500 and a 2500.

EDIT: Yeah. I just downloaded the manual for a 2005 Ram 1500, and it has the exact same info in it.

 

[jejeosborne]

The "warning" wasn't ignored, just not acknowledged. I would like to ask how one would "adjust" the CG with a loaded trailer? I have no way to put the tractor on there as of now anyway (mentioned that in first post, sort of) and even if I did, I cannot move the axle to test your theory. So I am at a loss on how to accomplish this. The only thing I could do (if I got the tractor on there) is weigh the current tongue .

I mentioned how I would do it earlier and also linked a thread on how I did it. Wait until your trailer is ready for the tractor and put it on it then. I think you are making it more difficult than necessary. Just take your time.
Jeff

 

[jejeosborne]

But wait... something isn't right here, because the manual shows a GVWR of 6500 lbs there, and my vehicle placard shows 9000 lbs. Also, they show GAWR of 3600 and 3900, but my vehicle placard shows 5200 and 6010. I think we can both agree that the info printed on the placard on the door of the vehicle is 100% authoritative. The manual's information is not matching up with my truck's info. Those specs seem to match more closely with a 1500, and I wonder whether they use the same manual for a 1500 and a 2500.

EDIT: Yeah. I just downloaded the manual for a 2005 Ram 1500, and it has the exact same info in it.

I am confused. What are your hitch limits? Please post and put my mind at ease.

 

[joshuabardwell]

I am confused. What are your hitch limits? Please post and put my mind at ease.

Well, I'm confused as well, so we are in good company! My hitch is rated for 12,000 lbs tow capacity and 1,200 lbs tongue weight. But it seems pretty clear to me now that everybody specs hitches based on a weight-distributing system being in place. The question that is outstanding is at what point you have to put the WD system on, and I don't have a straight answer for you.

One could argue that Dodge puts the exact same Class IV hitch on the 1500 as the 2500, in which case the 350 lbs TW number that is in the manual could be correct. The Dodge web site says 500 lbs TW (5000 lbs trailer weight) for a WD system. I'm not sure which of these numbers is correct.

Bottom line is that my towing capacity is substantially lower than I thought it was this morning, because I didn't realize that every hitch manufacturer (it seems) specs their hitches based on the WD rating. I bought a 12,000 lb ball mount in order to match my hitch's rating, but it sure seems like it was a waste of money, since I can't go over 5000 (or maybe as low as 3500) lbs without a WD system.

Live and learn...

EDIT: Now you have got me wondering. I am going to go out (in the rain, nonetheless!) and look under my truck to see if I can find that sticker.

EDIT #2: Sorry. I just went out with a flashlight and looked all over it, and I just don't see that sticker anywhere on the hitch.