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  1. #91
    Platinum Member cdaigle430's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee DIESEL

    Quote Originally Posted by buickanddeere View Post
    It's not a technical barrier. It's the different emissions regulations and cost of fuel between the North America and Europe.
    Of course there will be a light diesel market any place where the diesels don't have 2007 and later emissions and when diesel is at least a dollar a gallon cheaper than gasoline.
    Would have thought this all to be an obvious no brainer?
    I am so frustrated with my state sometimes-Can someone tell me why I cant purchase a diesel car or suv here? I heard its because of emmisions, and I will definatly buy a diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee if I could. I have owned three Jeep Grand Cherokee Limitieds since they were born-all models except for the newest one.
    2010 MF GC2410 TLB, 2006 Husqvarna YTH 2448, 2004 Honda Rincon 650, 2007 Honda Shadow Aero 750, 2006 Jeep Grand Cherokee Limited-Hemi.

  2. #92
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    Default Re: 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee DIESEL

    Quote Originally Posted by Dmace View Post
    Not bad at all considering the proven record of reliability, simple NA V8 design and power output. No turbos needed! ;-)

    All the manufacturers have already done that homework. They just need to know there's a market for it. The Chrysler CEO stated they had a light duty diesel all set for the RAM 1500 and test mules running around but weren't sure there was a market for it. Why the harsh criticism towards someone making an observation? They SHOULD have a diesel option in more vehicles and it WILL happen...
    There is no light diesel North American market because diesel is so much more expensive than gasoline. Get it? In Europe there is a light diesel market because diesel is much cheaper than gasoline. Get it?
    The European diesel is cheaper to build and service due to the less stringent emissions. Get it? The North American diesel costs more to purchase and maintain than the European diesel because of the EPA emission regs. Get it?
    Why would a customer purchase a diesel and have the cost per mile increase? This isn't 1989-2002 , the days when the diesel ruled the light truck market and was an advantage. Get it?
    Last edited by buickanddeere; 01-28-2013 at 03:03 PM.

  3. #93
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    Default Re: 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee DIESEL

    Quote Originally Posted by buickanddeere View Post
    There is no light diesel North American market because diesel is so much more expensive than gasoline. Get it? In Europe there is a light diesel market because diesel is much cheaper than gasoline. Get it?
    The European diesel is cheaper to build and service due to the less stringent emissions. Get it? The North American diesel costs more to purchase and maintain than the European diesel because of the EPA emission regs. Get it?
    Why would a customer purchase a diesel and have the cost per mile increase? This isn't 1989-2002 , the days when the diesel ruled the light truck market and was an advantage. Get it?
    Yeah, we "Get It". In fact, I get it so often (every time I turn the key) that there is no feeling left down there.

    Would be nice to get kissed first.

    Your choices here are:

    1) Learn to enjoy "Getting It".

    2) Go for a lobotomy so that you can ignore the elevated cost and taxes you will be paying for "gas" that is increasingly watered down with ethanol. (I'm talking about the decreased functionality of a gallon of Exy, not just the increased rate of taxation. Both will happen/are happening).

    3) Move outside of Canada and the USA, so that you can enjoy driving the efficient lower cost transportation that the rest of the world has.

    Rgds, D.

  4. #94
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    Default Re: 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee DIESEL

    I agree with you 3930 Dave. We are getting abused by the do gooder social planners in the EPA.

  5. #95
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    Default Re: 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee DIESEL

    Quote Originally Posted by cdaigle430 View Post
    I am so frustrated with my state sometimes-Can someone tell me why I cant purchase a diesel car or suv here? I heard its because of emmisions, and I will definatly buy a diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee if I could. I have owned three Jeep Grand Cherokee Limitieds since they were born-all models except for the newest one.
    i've said it before in a thread or two: you can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting a tdi or two. granted, this may not be your choice of car, but there are a lot of them on the roads around here, even with the over $4 a gallon fuel costs. i'm not up to date on any of the other current import offerings to know what else is being sold here, but i know the vw still is. several years back there was a window where vw couldn't sell a new diesel in maine, but due to the typical short-sighted lawmaking you were still able to go across the border into new hampshire and buy a new one and register it here. maine does always seem to follow massachusetts and california in their urge to be "proactive" in anything emissions related.

    aside from the european offerings, there isn't much of anything diesel being produced for anywhere in this country is there? - not counting 3/4 ton &up trucks, of course. there was a diesel jeep liberty for a short time i think, but i remember hearing bad things about it.

  6. #96
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    Default Re: 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee DIESEL

    Quote Originally Posted by buickanddeere View Post
    I agree with you 3930 Dave. We are getting abused by the do gooder social planners in the EPA.
    Extra Profit Always.

    Significant and repeated epidemiological studies might start to sway me, but at this time, I can't see that the EPA diesel regs accomplish much (human impact) vs. the EU's.

    As opposed to just changing the TV channel, a lot of Western European populations are much more of the activist bent. Try launching a major GM food product - I wouldn't be surprised to see half of Paris rioting. France is a good example on this diesel issue - since their medicine is highly socialized, the government would have a major fiscal interest in correcting any significant environmental problems that affect health.

    Mostly, our governments are just tuning their Tax revenue streams. Try and find an "Eco" initiative that decreases government revenues - good luck. I get the distinct impression that our overlords are quite willing to drive our economies into the ground (again), rather than back off the EcoTaxes.

    The studies are well know to govt - poor people here will spend a ridiculous portion of their income, just to be able to drive their car. We want it, so they tax the **** out of it.

    I'm a confirmed gear-head, but if I had to do it over..... I certainly understand why many young people in major cities don't bother owning a vehicle - way too much hassle/expense. You can't tax something that people refuse to buy.

    Crowd people into cities.... yeah, the strategy seems to be working.....

    Unfortunately, waste veggie oil has become a major commercial game. If I had a good friend or family member that owned (outright) a good sized restaurant, I'd set myself up to go full veggie. Without an assured source, I can't see going that route in my old diesel.

    Hey, at least walking is good for ya ! (Wait ! Something in my crystal ball...... I see a new shoe tax coming !)

    Rgds, D.

  7. #97
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    Default Re: 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee DIESEL

    Quote Originally Posted by lostcause View Post
    i've said it before in a thread or two: you can't swing a dead cat around here without hitting a tdi or two. granted, this may not be your choice of car, but there are a lot of them on the roads around here, even with the over $4 a gallon fuel costs. i'm not up to date on any of the other current import offerings to know what else is being sold here, but i know the vw still is. several years back there was a window where vw couldn't sell a new diesel in maine, but due to the typical short-sighted lawmaking you were still able to go across the border into new hampshire and buy a new one and register it here. maine does always seem to follow massachusetts and california in their urge to be "proactive" in anything emissions related.

    aside from the european offerings, there isn't much of anything diesel being produced for anywhere in this country is there? - not counting 3/4 ton &up trucks, of course. there was a diesel jeep liberty for a short time i think, but i remember hearing bad things about it.
    I will give VW their due - they have hung in (Canadian market) when many others have come and gone, or just never showed up. Firstly, I regard that as smart business for them - most decades they've had absolutely no competition here in their end of the market. They only sell loaded up models here (can't say I blame 'em), their cheapest tDI is probably something like $6k+ over a gas model. $6k may not be a lot to some folks, but it is to me.

    My inner geek has a problem with the tDI having a belt driven camshaft. If I bought one new, I'd probably put something like 1million km on it. When you start factoring in $1,000 Tbelt changes over that time, that starts to knock back the fuel savings a bit. Esp. now that Civics and Corollas run timing chains, it is harder for me to sell myself on the basic tDI motor.

    Step up to the Toureg, and you get a timing chain tDI, but that is WAY out of my snack bracket.

    Don't get me wrong, I mostly like VW's tDI offering - the 400k km ones I've shuttled for my buddy after he's repaired 'em seem to be still pretty well screwed together after being pounded by our roads.

    Just wish we had more choices to pick from, other than VW at the low end.

    Rgds, D.

  8. #98
    Super Member mjncad's Avatar
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    Default Re: 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee DIESEL

    If I'm not mistaken; Europe got on the diesel bandwagon big time after the war because diesel is easier to make than gasoline, and refining capacity was decimated by the war. Also diesel offered better mileage than gasoline, which put less strain on the refining and supply infrastructure that was rebuilding as well. So the Your-a-pee'n Gummints taxed the crap out of gasoline to encourage people to buy diesel powered cars. Then they taxed the crap out of cars they considered big; so people bought small affordable cars that also fit their narrow streets. Now Europe just taxes the crap out of anything and everything to pay for failed feel good social programs.
    Paraphrasing Douglas Adams - So long and thanks for all the bacon.

  9. #99
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    Default Re: 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee DIESEL

    Quote Originally Posted by mjncad View Post
    If I'm not mistaken; Europe got on the diesel bandwagon big time after the war because diesel is easier to make than gasoline, and refining capacity was decimated by the war. Also diesel offered better mileage than gasoline, which put less strain on the refining and supply infrastructure that was rebuilding as well. So the Your-a-pee'n Gummints taxed the crap out of gasoline to encourage people to buy diesel powered cars. Then they taxed the crap out of cars they considered big; so people bought small affordable cars that also fit their narrow streets. Now Europe just taxes the crap out of anything and everything to pay for failed feel good social programs.
    I don't usually hear a private citizen arguing for higher taxers, but that is a well thought out arguement mjn ! Why didn't I think of that !

    The upside of the Ontario economy circling the drain, is that I may end up in Fort Mac for work. There, I can buy an oil company engineer a beer (nuthin' else to do up there with time off) and ask something that I haven't figured out in all this sorry N. American mess - if diesel takes less work to refine, why do I have the perception that the oil companies here would much sooner sell gas ? Profit, is my guess, but between the oil co's and the gubmint, re-arranging those #'s could be done over a few drinks.

    Diesel caught on like crazy pre WWII. Euros loved the efficiency, firstly in heavy industrial applications - back when, what diesel displaced was heavy steam power. Mercedes had a Direct Injection 5 ton commercial truck in production in 1929 !

    Just irritates the **** out of me watching an ever escalating gasoline bill every month, when I know that most of the rest of the world readily drives better solutions.

    Yeah.... I know...... MOVE !

    Rgds, D.

  10. #100
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    Default Re: 2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee DIESEL

    Quote Originally Posted by 3930dave View Post
    if diesel takes less work to refine, why do I have the perception that the oil companies here would much sooner sell gas ?
    i'm no petroleum engineer, but i have seen a lot of sets of construction documents pass before my eyes over the last couple decades, and one thing i did see a lot of was crackers. i'm not talking about food ,or guys waving confederate flags, but industrial structures designed to break heavier petroleum products down into lighter ones - particularly gasoline. i wonder if we're just plain set up to make more gasoline than anything else now?

    on another note, i personally don't think that a lot of people are capable of owning diesels anymore. gasoline vehicles are far more reliable now than they were even a couple decades ago. many gasoline vehicles now don't even have fuel filters. spark plugs rarely ever need to be changed oil changes are in the range of 5k miles and up. tune up? what's that? when i started driving in the mid 80's i had to know and remember a lot more than you do now in order to keep a vehicle running. diesels still have a little more to worry about than gas. the fuel is much more dirty and you do need to worry about filters. you still have to contend with glow plugs because the stuff just doesn't flow well in the cold. anti-gel and additives are fairly common. biocides might be necessary depending on your driving practices and fuel consumption. i believe that the general population is too much of a point and click society to be able to take care of a diesel. i know guys with newer diesels that have had issues with prolonged idling affecting the dpf and regen. picture everyone parked in gridlock every day like this and i'm betting the problems would compound. when you're here the majority may all agree, but that majority doesn't even constitute a small minority of the rest of the buying population.

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