2014 Jeep Grand Cherokee DIESEL

[IslandTractor]

i'm no petroleum engineer, but i have seen a lot of sets of construction documents pass before my eyes over the last couple decades, and one thing i did see a lot of was crackers. i'm not talking about food ,or guys waving confederate flags, but industrial structures designed to break heavier petroleum products down into lighter ones - particularly gasoline. i wonder if we're just plain set up to make more gasoline than anything else now?

on another note, i personally don't think that a lot of people are capable of owning diesels anymore. gasoline vehicles are far more reliable now than they were even a couple decades ago. many gasoline vehicles now don't even have fuel filters. spark plugs rarely ever need to be changed oil changes are in the range of 5k miles and up. tune up? what's that? when i started driving in the mid 80's i had to know and remember a lot more than you do now in order to keep a vehicle running. diesels still have a little more to worry about than gas. the fuel is much more dirty and you do need to worry about filters. you still have to contend with glow plugs because the stuff just doesn't flow well in the cold. anti-gel and additives are fairly common. biocides might be necessary depending on your driving practices and fuel consumption. i believe that the general population is too much of a point and click society to be able to take care of a diesel. i know guys with newer diesels that have had issues with prolonged idling affecting the dpf and regen. picture everyone parked in gridlock every day like this and i'm betting the problems would compound. when you're here the majority may all agree, but that majority doesn't even constitute a small minority of the rest of the buying population.

You make some good points. Virtually all of the gas engines available today are much more efficient than just five years ago. The equivalent diesels are still getting more mpg but the payback period is not so clearly within the first 100,000 miles or so for passenger cars given the current 15-20% markup for diesel over regular gas. Just as a quick calculation, assuming EPA numbers for combined mpg of 34mpg for diesel (eg VW TDI sportwagen) vs 29mpg for gas (eg Mazda CX5) then in 100,000 miles with diesel at 4.10 and gas at 3.50 (my local prices today), you would spend $12058 on diesel or $12068 on gas. A paltry ten dollar savings in fuel for an engine that costs more and is more expensive to maintain and repair.

I think we have reached the point with both gas and diesel engines where cars wear out and are uneconomical to keep on the road due to parts and systems other than the engine. The days where one considered buying a Mercedes diesel because it would run for half a million miles are long gone. No one can afford to keep an old MB on the road these days. I cannot recall the last vehicle I junked because the engine died. Tranny, rust, etc etc but not engine failure.

 

[mjncad]

I don't usually hear a private citizen arguing for higher taxers, but that is a well thought out arguement mjn ! Why didn't I think of that !

Rgds, D.

A friend of mine lives in Toronto and came to Canada from Slovakia about 15-years ago. She grew up under Communism, and I've learned a bit about the European mindset from her. She told me most Europeans are conditioned to love paying more and more taxes, and she's noticed the same thing in the Toronto metropolitan area population. She's happy to be in Canada by the way.

i'm no petroleum engineer, but i have seen a lot of sets of construction documents pass before my eyes over the last couple decades, and one thing i did see a lot of was crackers. i'm not talking about food ,or guys waving confederate flags, but industrial structures designed to break heavier petroleum products down into lighter ones - particularly gasoline. i wonder if we're just plain set up to make more gasoline than anything else now?

There hasn't been a brand new refinery built in the USA since the 70's. Sure, upgrades and additions have been done to the ones still in operation; but nothing new. Now whether these modifications have resulted in less diesel refining capacity or not, I don't know. A couple of oil companies have closed East Coast refineries because the EPA mandates are more costly than it's worth to bring the old plants into compliance.

 

[foggy1111]

i'm no petroleum engineer, but i have seen a lot of sets of construction documents pass before my eyes over the last couple decades, and one thing i did see a lot of was crackers. i'm not talking about food ,or guys waving confederate flags, but industrial structures designed to break heavier petroleum products down into lighter ones - particularly gasoline. i wonder if we're just plain set up to make more gasoline than anything else now?

on another note, i personally don't think that a lot of people are capable of owning diesels anymore. gasoline vehicles are far more reliable now than they were even a couple decades ago. many gasoline vehicles now don't even have fuel filters. spark plugs rarely ever need to be changed oil changes are in the range of 5k miles and up. tune up? what's that? when i started driving in the mid 80's i had to know and remember a lot more than you do now in order to keep a vehicle running. diesels still have a little more to worry about than gas. the fuel is much more dirty and you do need to worry about filters. you still have to contend with glow plugs because the stuff just doesn't flow well in the cold. anti-gel and additives are fairly common. biocides might be necessary depending on your driving practices and fuel consumption. i believe that the general population is too much of a point and click society to be able to take care of a diesel. i know guys with newer diesels that have had issues with prolonged idling affecting the dpf and regen. picture everyone parked in gridlock every day like this and i'm betting the problems would compound. when you're here the majority may all agree, but that majority doesn't even constitute a small minority of the rest of the buying population.

^ Well said. It's amazing how gasoline engines have evolved. Seems the engine is one of the most reliable parts of the vehicle. Now, if the engineers could improve on the weaker-link: Transmissions (which have improved....but need better longevity).

 

[Viperdave]

so you can now build a diesel jeep on their website.

and 4500 was wishful thinking.

to add it to the limited, it requires buying the luxury group, for a total addition of over 7K...

way to screw up a good thing chrysler.

 

[IslandTractor]

so you can now build a diesel jeep on their website.

and 4500 was wishful thinking.

to add it to the limited, it requires buying the luxury group, for a total addition of over 7K...

way to screw up a good thing chrysler.

Yep. What is also amazing is that Mercedes charges only $1500 to upgrade to their diesel.

 

[Dmace]

so you can now build a diesel jeep on their website.

and 4500 was wishful thinking.

to add it to the limited, it requires buying the luxury group, for a total addition of over 7K...

way to screw up a good thing chrysler.

I agree, they are going to price it out of reach for most...
I bet that changes for next years model.

Yep. What is also amazing is that Mercedes charges only $1500 to upgrade to their diesel.

Keep in mind Mercedes has had the Blutec diesel for quite a while now. New technologies get cheaper as they become more mass produced. Plus the diesel Mercedes starts at like $51k.

 

[IslandTractor]

I agree, they are going to price it out of reach for most...
I bet that changes for next years model.

Keep in mind Mercedes has had the Blutec diesel for quite a while now. New technologies get cheaper as they become more mass produced. Plus the diesel Mercedes starts at like $51k.

I actually think the analogy to Mercedes is apt. Yes, the ML320 starts off as a higher priced vehicle but that is because they don't offer a stripped down version like Jeep does. Once you get into the Limited you are talking about fairly comparable vehicles pricewise and by feature. The ML is manufactured in Alabama so it's not like they are paying European wages either. Perhaps the base 3.5 liter Mercedes engine is a bit pricier than the equivalent Jeep motor but I doubt there is that much difference as the new Jeep was certainly on the drawing boards when Mercedes still owned Jeep.

I think the pricing is a pure marketing decision and a stupid one. If the price doesn't dissuade buyers I will be shocked. If they don't sell many because of that they will simply declare that Americans don't want diesels and pull if off the option list. Dumb as dirt. If they were serious about introducing diesel to a market they considered iffy, they would offer it at a discounted price the first year or two and then jack the price up once the benefits were well publicized. Dumb as dirt.

 

[Ford850]

I agree, they are going to price it out of reach for most...
I bet that changes for next years model.

Keep in mind Mercedes has had the Blutec diesel for quite a while now. New technologies get cheaper as they become more mass produced. Plus the diesel Mercedes starts at like $51k.

I agree, it will change in future years. Supply and demand. The supply will be short this year by design so they can require you to add all the high dollar/profit options in order to get one. It will also create a mystique as a top of the line engine, which will help sales in future years. If they plan on not having enough engines to go around this year, it would be foolish of them to allow any to be sold with less than luxury options. In my opinion it is a smart move.
Also, the more profit they can make on these the more likely we'll see more diesels in other models. Good stuff.

 

[crazyal]

I wonder if Mazda will put it's diesel in the CX-5 SUV and if so make the same mistake.

 

[IslandTractor]

I wonder if Mazda will put it's diesel in the CX-5 SUV and if so make the same mistake.

I am very interested in the answer to your question. I have a CX9 which has been faultless in three years but gets lousy gas mileage (and I rarely use the third row of seats). I for one would jump on a diesel CX5 in a heart beat. Mazda already makes the diesel CX5 which is I believe available in every market other than North America. They have already announced that the same diesel will be available in their new Mazda 6 sedan this summer so they appear committed to introducing diesel engines. They would be nuts not to offer the same diesel in the CX5 as it would be a serious competitor to the VW Sportwagen