Ram 1500 first modern half ton to offer diesel

[aczlan]

The thing I don't quite understand with some of the calculations on Gas vs. Diesel is the fact that residual value is never accounted for.
If you take the base calculations you are assuming that the additional cost for the diesel option is carried and lost as the vehicle depreciates to $0. I don't normally buy vehicles and then own them until their value is $0. If I pay $2K, $4k, or whatever for the diesel option, when I sell the vehicle it is typically worth more than a gasser for the same reason at resale. In the end for me the upfront cost might be $4K but if the truck is worth $2K more at resale than an a gasser, my cost was $2K

My thinking was that the higher resale value would pretty much be used up by the diesel premium and higher maintenance costs.

Aaron Z

[jejeosborne]

Running the numbers, I get (assuming the towing/not towing mileages are: Gas 9/18MPG, Diesel 18/25MPG, fuel is $3.90/$4.20 and they drive 10k miles/year):
Fuel cost towing/not towing: Gas: $4333/$2166, Diesel $2333/$1680. $2000/year less in fuel for the Diesel (if you drop the Diesel towing MPG to 15, it would use $2800 in fuel, $1533 less than the gas engine).

Aaron Z

I haven't seen in recent history that close of a fuel price spread between gas and diesel. I am also thinking that you are optimistic in thinking the diesel motor will achieve 18 mpg towing. 15 mpg I think would still be optimist from that small of displacement.

[jejeosborne]

With only 240 HP it won't tow as well as the 395 HP HEMI but 420 LB.FT of torque and an 8 speed tranny will mean less shifting and better fuel economy while towing. If I needed a daily driver with decent towing, I would certainly test drive this to compare but still would rather have a good simple gas engine with more power so I would stick with the HEMI and 8 speed tranny.

I agree with your thinking. I know you aren't a fan of the ecoboost, but in the back of my mind I was thinking similar thoughts as you comparing it to this diesel. It will be interesting comparing the torque curves of these two engines. Both make 420 ft/lbs are low rpms.

[Ford850]

After years of people asking for a diesel in a half ton, and saying they will buy the first one that comes out, who plans to follow through? Who plans to pay the $4500 premium over the new Pentastar that gets similar MPGs. Who on this thread definitely plans to buy one and can report back on their purchase come 3rd quarter (July)? I think the only way to justify a diesel in a half ton is if you tow heavy and tow daily though. I'm curious since now that Ram delivered on all this great little Italian diesel, we now hear guys say they will wait for GM to build one, and THEN they will definitely buy it. So, who's in?

[aczlan]

I haven't seen in recent history that close of a fuel price spread between gas and diesel.

Thats the pump prices around here. We have spendy fuel due to high taxes.

I am also thinking that you are optimistic in thinking the diesel motor will achieve 18 mpg towing. 15 mpg I think would still be optimist from that small of displacement.

Will be interesting to see what it gets when some of the magazines get some test trucks and tow with them. Pretty much anything mileage wise is a guess at this point.

Aaron Z

[Ford850]

I agree with your thinking. I know you aren't a fan of the ecoboost, but in the back of my mind I was thinking similar thoughts as you comparing it to this diesel. It will be interesting comparing the torque curves of these two engines. Both make 420 ft/lbs are low rpms.

While the Ecoboost has over 50% more HP (365), it is at high RPMs. But it does get most of the 420 ft lbs down real low. I think the Ecoboost will walk all over this new diesel with power but the diesel will kill the Ecoboost for MPGs if most of your driving is while towing heavy. For that matter, this diesel will beat ALL gasers for MPGs when towing heavy.

[mikehaugen]

Resale at this point I think is a to be undetermined. If these engines turn out to be POS, resale will not be high.

I also don't understand why everyone is so excited to buy a half ton with a diesel for heavy towing, if you are towing that much why wouldn't you just buy a 3/4 ton?

[jejeosborne]

While the Ecoboost has over 50% more HP (365), it is at high RPMs. But it does get most of the 420 ft lbs down real low. I think the Ecoboost will walk all over this new diesel with power but the diesel will kill the Ecoboost for MPGs if most of your driving is while towing heavy. For that matter, this diesel will beat ALL gasers for MPGs when towing heavy.

Yes, I agree.

I think the fact the ecoboost has a longer, wider rpm range with the available torque will more than make up for the two fewer gears. One will have to sacrifice acceleration for fuel efficiency. Anxiously awaiting some torque curves unless someone already has access to one.

[aczlan]

I also don't understand why everyone is so excited to buy a half ton with a diesel for heavy towing, if you are towing that much why wouldn't you just buy a 3/4 ton?

Unloaded mileage? 25 MPG in a 1/2 vs 17-19 MPG in a 3/4 ton. Slightly better loaded mileage (due to a lighter tow vehicle)?

Aaron Z

[Diamondpilot]

I think you guys are in law law land. I have personally ownded about 15 trucks in my life time, 4 were diesel. My customers are about 1/2 gas and 1/2 diesel owners. No matter gas or diesel you put 75% the tow capacity behind a truck you are going to get roughly 1/2 the unloaded mpg.

Take my two current trucks. My 06 F350 will do 23.6 mpg at 75 mph unloaded. Throw my current big boat behind it and it gets about 14 mpg.

My other truck is a 08 Nissan Titan. It gets about 16 mpg at 75 mph. Throw my smaller boat behind it and it gets right at 9 mpg.

Why a diesel really shines is the Turbo. Same benefit can be seen with a gas engine and a turbo. They allow the engine to make full HP as temperature and altitude change. Remember that stated HP and TQ numbers per SAE Ratings are done at sea level and 15 deg Celsius (59 deg Fahrenheit). Every 1000' of elevation change makes you lose about 3% of your power. That means a guy with a 300 HP truck at Denver, about 6000' elevation, will lose 18% power to start with if its the same 59 deg F. Thats nearly a 55 HP loss. Now factor in temp and as it gets hotter performance falls again.

Temp plays a big part and is part of the reason you see a loss in fuel economy in the winter and a gain in the summer. Cold air is more dense and has the ability to make more power which takes more fuel. Vise versa in the summer.

What a turbo does is normalize things. The first turbo systems were actually marketed as "Turbo Normalizers".

Yes a diesel does a good job at making low end torque but its less a advantage today when compared to todays direct injected gas engines like the Eco Boost, ect.

Chris