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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by George2615 View Post
    I don't know what your truck is rated for re: max goose neck trailer weight. But if your combined truck and trailer weight is over 26,000 you would need a CDL A. I suspect your truck weighs at least 6500-7000 plus the 21,000 on the trailer plus the trailer weight itself puts you well above 26K.
    I don't think the CDL is necessary unless you're towing commercial. For private towing, as long as you're under the GCWR you should be fine.

  2. #12
    Silver Member EdK's Avatar
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    Central NH
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    Kubota M6800, Case 580E Super

    Default Re: legal tow?

    Aren't many of the hotshots with a CDL and DOT#'s exceeding their manufacturer's GCWR on a regular basis?

  3. #13
    Super Member George2615's Avatar
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    Central Square, NY
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    LS XR3037HC

    Default Re: legal tow?

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuabardwell View Post
    I don't think the CDL is necessary unless you're towing commercial. For private towing, as long as you're under the GCWR you should be fine.
    Just my opinion but I think the OP's 2001 F350 is not rated at all to haul the weight he mentioned. The way I read our states DMV rules is anyone that drives a truck with trailer combination over 26,000 requires a CDL A whether for private or commercial use. Having a CDL class B allows the truck to be over 26,000 but limits a trailer towed behind it to 10K. For this truck to tow a trailer weighing over 10K a CDL A would be needed.

    Are you saying that it would be legal for a person with a regular drivers license who owns a dump truck registered at 18,000 (non CDL) to legally tow a 20K loaded trailer. I doubt its legal in Tenn. and definitely not legal here.

    I have a few neighbors with 1T dually pickups that regularly tow 20K trailers with a 16,000 lb. excavators or 18K dozers. They have regular drivers licenses and are breaking the law every day. Its only a matter of time before the have an accident and lose there businesses to a lawsuit.

    I think it is just in recent years that new 1Ton pickups have a GCWR approaching or going over the 26,000 lb. rule.

  4. #14
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    Bobcat CT225

    Default Re: legal tow?

    Quote Originally Posted by George2615 View Post
    Are you saying that it would be legal for a person with a regular drivers license who owns a dump truck registered at 18,000 (non CDL) to legally tow a 20K loaded trailer. I doubt its legal in Tenn. and definitely not legal here.
    I know this is a topic that is argued over heatedly, and I don't claim to be an expert on the topic, but here's what I find.

    dot.gov defines a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) as: Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle— ... and then it goes on to list the 26k rule, 16 passenger rule, etc...

    A CDL is only required if you are driving a CMV. Therefore, if you are driving a vehicle in excess of 26k, but it is not for "commerce to transport passengers or property," you don't need a CDL.

    That's how I read it, anyway, and I have heard others express the same sentiment.

  5. #15
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    Default Re: legal tow?

    Aren't many of the hotshots with a CDL and DOT#'s exceeding their manufacturer's GCWR on a regular basis?
    Yeah, As mentioned GCWR is not on a truck anywhere nor is it required to be. A leo has no way to find what it is as a truck owner can make a simple gear swap and change a trucks GCWR.
    Commercial haulers may use the trucks registered GVW plus the trailers registered GVW for a a declared GCWR. Example is say a new '13 3500 DRW Ram with its 14000 lb GVWR plus the trailers 20000 lb GVWR can be 34000 lb GCWR. However the trucks steer and drive axle/tire ratings or the trailers axle/tires cannot be exceeded.

    Looking at Fords '01 spec sheets shows a F350 DRW has a 11200 GVWR and a 8250 RAWR with a 13500 lb tow rating along with a 20000 GCWR. Good strong truck.
    A tractor forum isnt the best place for legal issues so check with your state size and weight motor vehicle dept or your local state trooper post for what you actually need.

  6. #16
    Super Member George2615's Avatar
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    Default Re: legal tow?

    Quote Originally Posted by joshuabardwell View Post
    I know this is a topic that is argued over heatedly, and I don't claim to be an expert on the topic, but here's what I find.

    dot.gov defines a Commercial Motor Vehicle (CMV) as: Commercial motor vehicle (CMV) means a motor vehicle or combination of motor vehicles used in commerce to transport passengers or property if the motor vehicle ... and then it goes on to list the 26k rule, 16 passenger rule, etc...

    A CDL is only required if you are driving a CMV. Therefore, if you are driving a vehicle in excess of 26k, but it is not for "commerce to transport passengers or property," you don't need a CDL.

    That's how I read it, anyway, and I have heard others express the same sentiment.
    Here is an excerpt from the NYSDMV law pertaining to regular drivers licenses. No matter what the driven and tow vehicles each weigh the GCWR cannot be more than 26,000 lb.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  7. #17
    New Member redtailfarm's Avatar
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    Kubota L39/GR2120/L4240

    Default Re: legal tow?

    I had to research the CDL issues since I just ordered new trailer and was bombarded with opinions about 'need one vs don't need one'. Officially, I was told the key to this question is GVWR on the VIN plate to the trailer. If it is 10,000lbs, you do not need a CDL. If it is 10,001lbs or higher, the 26,000lb clause comes into play. A trailer with a 14,000lb GVWR will require a CDL if the tow vehicle has GVWR of 12,000lbs or more. However, if you pull the same 14,000lb GVWR trailer with say a Duramax 2500HD that has 9200lb GVWR, no CDL is required.

    Conversely, if tow vehicle is 26,000lb GVWR and trailer is 10,000lb GVWR, you do not need a CDL. Clear as mud? But thinking about some motorhomes(no CDL required), at least this appears consistent. If you think about a small tractor cab pulling 40-60 foot trailer, this logic works. The cab is <26,000lbs but yet a CDL is required - the trailer GVWR is above 10,001lbs.

    Two things that did not affect this equation - commercial plates or air brakes. The officer also told me it tends to get interpreted differently by law enforcement but since he was the teacher, I'll hang my hat on it.

  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by deerfarmer4life View Post
    I own a 2001 f350 diesel. I am unsure of the max goose neck weight i can pull.

    Ive got a 32 pj trailer with tandum duals tagged for 21k but has 12,000 lbs axles.

    If i put 21k on the trailer am i legal?

    I have a cdl.
    Is your truck a dually or a single rear wheel? Your legal limiting factor is going to be your rear axle and tire ratings. The Tongue weight of your trailer can't exceed them. I'd guess the truck can pull a 21k load, but it will be heavy. Make sure the trailer brakes are fully operational.

    If your trailer is tagged at 21k then the total weight of the trailer can't be over 21k. Your trailer probably weighs 6k or so, so you should be putting a 15k load on it. You can cheat a little bit and put a but heavier on, but you need to make sure tongue weights are correct for the load and that the trailer axles if weighed, do not exceed the GVWR of the trailer.

  9. #19
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    Kubota l3800

    Default Re: legal tow?

    the truck is a single rear wheel. as stated i have a cdl.

    i cant find a straight answer on to what is actually legal with the truck.sure it will hook up and move 40,000 lbs but is it legal?

    I've been told you just can't over load the axle ratings and then I have been told you can't exceed the gcwr of the vehicle. The gcwr of the vehicle isn't on the truck anywhere so unless the leos have a book with this on file how can they check?

    My 32 ft pj gooseneck is rated for 24,500 but is tagged for 21,000. I can position my load to limit the amount of tongue weight on the truck so that is why I'm asking.

    I guess I will have to find a Leo to ask.

  10. #20
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    Default Re: legal tow?

    Quote Originally Posted by deerfarmer4life View Post
    I guess I will have to find a Leo to ask.
    With all due respect to any LEOs out there, you shouldn't rely on their answer. I say this based on my experience interacting with LEOs about gun laws, but I suspect the same principle applies. I have gotten an amazing amount of incorrect information about gun laws from LEOs. The fact of the matter is that it's not their job to be 100% up-to-date on every law on the books, and a lot of them think they know more than they do, or their information is out of date. If a given LEO says that your truck would be legal, all you really know is that, if that LEO is the one who happens to pull you over one day, you won't get a ticket. But a different LEO may have a different opinion, and the fact that once upon a time some other LEO told you different is unlikely to save you. If a cop says your vehicle is legal and the DMV pulls you over and says it isn't, and it turns out the DMV is right, you're boned. Ultimately, you need to find out what the law actually says, and unfortunately, an LEO may not be the best source for that answer.

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