2013 dodge 3500 HD trailer towing uprated to 30,000lbs

[Diamondpilot]

Yeah, I was just a wee lad when those Ford ads came out (born in '76, the add above is from '85 it says), but I can still remember them chugging up that "mountain", hauling a Chevy and towing a Dodge!

Nothing has changed has it?

Chris

 

[jagyzf]

This is what I have been wondering. Engines have more power and transmissions probably better, but I find it hard to believe that the rearends are that much better than in the 90's and really back to the 70's. My '76 gmc had a 14 bolt rearend and I know they Dodge was using dana 80s in the 1990's. Aren't they still using these? Has there been some breakthrough in driveshaft/ u-joint technology? Are brakes really twice as good as they were 15 years ago?

I have pulled 12k behind my old Dodge ('96 2500 x-cab, 4x4 gas) and I was well beyond the factory rating, it handled it ok, but the engine sure was working. I really don't think I would like pulling 2-1/2 times that behind any pickup. I actually stopped and looked at an '02 Ram 3500 diesel. I checked the tow rating on it and because it was an auto it was actually rated about the same as my truck ~8500. That kind of surprised me. Is it really just the tranny/ engine holding back the rating on these older trucks? I know I have seen these with tandem dually trailers around here probably pushing 20k all of the time.

I wouldn't worry about the rear end so much except for holding back on down grades as the axle itself and the springs. When you brake I would think the load will want to push down on the front end of the trailer transfering load more load to the truck. Or at least that is what it sure feels like when I was pulling a large load on my tag trailer I had. I didn't feel it much if my truck was loaded, but sure did when the box empty. It wasn't like I was even using the brakes a lot, most of the time it was gears. Although I've never driven a tralier with a weight distributing hitch, or a 5th wheel on something that small. Mine were pintle and tag trailer or a couple of runs with a tractor and lowboy, but even then (with the tractor) my load was very small vs what the truck was rated for. So I don't know how much that helps the issues I see with that high a weight on a small tow vehicle.

I also worry about the some one who will jump right and think they can drive "normally" pulling large loads.

 

[sd455dan]

This is what I have been wondering. Engines have more power and transmissions probably better, but I find it hard to believe that the rearends are that much better than in the 90's and really back to the 70's. My '76 gmc had a 14 bolt rearend and I know they Dodge was using dana 80s in the 1990's. Aren't they still using these? Has there been some breakthrough in driveshaft/ u-joint technology? Are brakes really twice as good as they were 15 years ago?

I have pulled 12k behind my old Dodge ('96 2500 x-cab, 4x4 gas) and I was well beyond the factory rating, it handled it ok, but the engine sure was working. I really don't think I would like pulling 2-1/2 times that behind any pickup. I actually stopped and looked at an '02 Ram 3500 diesel. I checked the tow rating on it and because it was an auto it was actually rated about the same as my truck ~8500. That kind of surprised me. Is it really just the tranny/ engine holding back the rating on these older trucks? I know I have seen these with tandem dually trailers around here probably pushing 20k all of the time.

Well I know they upgraded the axles to the AAM models, my 03 3500 4x4 the front outer U joints are larger than the rear driveline ones on my 1976 Jeep honcho... The new 2013 frame is made of 50,000lbs. tensile strength steel , they strengthened the transmission(s). The gooseneck 5th wheel mounting setup is integrated at the factory, I do believe that when the 2003 3500s came out they did a new duty cycle test of loading the trucks to 95% of their rated capacity and then running the trucks to the equivalent of 150,000 miles in extreme temperatures... hoping that type of testing has been done every year since.... I'm sure Dodge has done some other upgrades to the suspension and brakes ,engine cooling...

Still don't know about descending a large inclined hill for miles with a 30k load on any one ton...I am with you about not being comfortable pulling and stopping a trailer that out weighs the truck by over 3 to 1... I do believe in long term durability testing and under rating to increase the safety factor. and it is very possible (likely) Dodge has done just that, would just like to see it in print...

 

[Peacock]

Nothing against the AAM axles, but not sure if they are an upgrade over the Dana's. The Dana axles had a disconnect which helped fuel economy and helped the longevity of the u-joints.

 

[Diamondpilot]

Well I know they upgraded the axles to the AAM models, my 03 3500 4x4 the front outer U joints are larger than the rear driveline ones on my 1976 Jeep honcho... The new 2013 frame is made of 50,000lbs. tensile strength steel , they strengthened the transmission(s). The gooseneck 5th wheel mounting setup is integrated at the factory, I do believe that when the 2003 3500s came out they did a new duty cycle test of loading the trucks to 95% of their rated capacity and then running the trucks to the equivalent of 150,000 miles in extreme temperatures... hoping that type of testing has been done every year since.... I'm sure Dodge has done some other upgrades to the suspension and brakes ,engine cooling...

Still don't know about descending a large inclined hill for miles with a 30k load on any one ton...I am with you about not being comfortable pulling and stopping a trailer that out weighs the truck by over 3 to 1... I do believe in long term durability testing and under rating to increase the safety factor. and it is very possible (likely) Dodge has done just that, would just like to see it in print...

Truckers gross out at 80,000# everyday using a 15,000# tractor. No reason a 1 ton can't do the same.

Chris

 

[94BULLITT]

Truckers gross out at 80,000# everyday using a 15,000# tractor. No reason a 1 ton can't do the same.

Chris

Look how everything is built on a semi and compare it to a 1 ton p/u. Everything is big on the semi.

 

[sd455dan]

Truckers gross out at 80,000# everyday using a 15,000# tractor. No reason a 1 ton can't do the same.

Chris

That's true -But look at how many tires are in contact with the road... 10 for the tractor alone, plus the trailer tires, that helps with control in my book also more actual brakes ....

 

[sd455dan]

Nothing against the AAM axles, but not sure if they are an upgrade over the Dana's. The Dana axles had a disconnect which helped fuel economy and helped the longevity of the u-joints.

I'm sure the disconnect would help mileage , but not strength the U joints do wear out this is the one for the other side of the 03 front axle replacing the one that just started binding yesterday at 104,500 the other side went about 2500 miles ago.

At least they are consistent failure mode at less than 2% variance:laughing: but they are beefy got to go fix my AAM axle I do think the strength is at least equal to the Dana, and btw I like Dana axles to...
OOps that picture is deceptive the u-joints diameter is not larger than a DVD but is darn close...

 

[mikehaugen]

well you learn something new everyday, I was not aware that the newer dodges did not have any means of axle disconnect. I am not sure which I prefer, with the disconnect style being on one side, either the drive-shaft will constantly be spinning, or the spider gears will always be turning, and the spider gears do not have bearings (as far as I know- I haven't done anything to my front axle). I guess it's not that big of an issue since I haven't had any problems with mine- 160k miles.... hard, abused miles many of them were from my younger days. If I weren't so lazy, I guess the manual front locking hubs are really the way to go. Come to think of it, I don't think my suburban has any front-end disconnecting means besides the transfer case. I don't have the intimate knowledge of it that I do of my truck... it's a Chevy- I haven't had to work on it much.

 

[JasG]

Truckers gross out at 80,000# everyday using a 15,000# tractor. No reason a 1 ton can't do the same.

Chris

Yet the truck is built too and does carry 1/2 the load. If your grossing 80,000 lbs 1/2 that is on the rear of the truck, only 1/2 on the wheels of the trailer. This is pulling a 30000 lb trailer that less than 10% (trailer weight) is on the truck, if I read it correct. You also have Maxi air brakes vs the trucks brakes and the electric trailer brakes. To me there are a lot of differences to make that leap.