tongue weight II - states and regs - tongue weight transfer

[newbury]

I'm wondering about how much weight my trailer (Hudson HSE Deluxe - 5 Ton Capacity Fender Equipment Trailer HSE Deluxe - 5 Ton Capacity Fender Equipment Trailer , 18' ) can carry in different states legally. My WD hitch is rated at 1,400 lbs.

I found 1 other thread that briefly discusses the issue of tongue weight transfer.
http://www.tractorbynet.com/forums/trailers-transportation/249719-tongue-weight.html

Reading Understand Your Trailer Gross Vehicle Weight Rating | Construction Business Owner Magazine implies that different states have different rules.


Hudson states

Maximum Payload: 10,000 lbs. w/adequate hitch load

So - Should I read that as I can put 11,400 lbs on and transfer 1,400 lbs to the hitch? Or put 10,000 lbs on and transfer 10% to 15% to the hitch?

Since I just drove from Virginia to Mississippi hauling what I figure as 7K of tractor and 2K of trailer with NO problem



and have room left over I'm figuring I could add a few more implements but want to keep it well within limits.


So does anyone know a concise link to where the rules might be? I try to be ready to buy equipment from Louisiana to Vermont, so there are a lot of states I'm concerned with.

 

[sacmarata]

I'll save you a LOT of time. There is no unified set of rules concerning state transportation regulation. I am a member of MAASTO, an organization trying to harmonize state regulations for motor carriers. It is very difficult to achieve harmonization because some states regulations are legislated by statute and changing the rules literally means an act of congress is required.
Your question is particularly hard to answer because some state enforce differently than regulated. What this means is you could contact a state's DOT and have them tell you the actual law and what is required, then contact that states Vehicle Enforcement Division and they may tell you otherwise because they simply don't enforce this or that.

To further complicate this, you may have a trailer rated for less than the combined rating of the axles. My Stiger trailer is a perfect example. It has 7,000lb axles, but the trailer is only rated for 9,500lbs.

I would recommend contacting each states Vehicle Enforcement Division prior to traveling if you have any questions because they are the guys on the street enforcing the rules and the ones you are more likely to have to be explaining yourself to.

P.S. if you find a web link claiming to have each states regulations listed for motor carriers DO NOT TRUST IT. THEY ARE ALL WRONG! This is a fact.

 

[s219]

I'd interpret the Hudson statement to mean that you can have a maximum payload of 10,000# assuming the hitch is properly loaded to give 10-15% tongue weight.

But what does the sticker on the trailer say? It should have different ratings that will allow you to determine the empty weight of the trailer. Generally, on most trailers I have looked at, you can take the combined axle capacity, subtract trailer weight, and that tells you cargo weight. No matter how you look at it, it's assumed you have 10-15% on the tongue for stable towing..

My trailer has dual 3500# axles and weighs 1600#. That means the cargo capacity is 3500*2-1600 = 5400#. Again assuming 10-15% on the tongue for stability.

My understanding has always been that the tongue capacity should not be treated as additional load bearing in the sense that it cannot increase your trailer's payload. When driving, with motion and dynamics, the trailer should be capable of bearing all the load on its axles and not depend on the tongue rating of the tow vehicle for capacity. If you look at the sticker on a trailer, it's completely independent of tow vehicle, and has no assumptions about who/what is pulling in front.

 

[sacmarata]

When stopped by Vehicle Enforcement they will simply use portable scales under the trailer axles. Whatever the reading is better not exceed the trailers weight rating....but again, that figure is open to interpretation. Is it the the combination of the axles rating or the trailer rating? Depends on the LEO to be honest. In some states they don't even consider the axle rating...thats a fact. They simply weight the gross (truck, trailler and load) and compare it to your plated weight.

Because it generates more revenue for the states, make sure the plated weight of your truck isn't exceeded by your gross. In some states, thats the first thing they look for because not only do you get the citation for axle weight, but now you have to go downtown and increase the plated weight on your tow vehicle and the state gets more $$$$ yearly.

so, you could have a load of only 9,000lbs on a trailer AND axles rated for 12,000lbs+ but be overweight because the truck is plated (registered) for only 8,000lbs.

There isn't any one source to determine each states regulations...I wish there were, it would make my job a lot easier. Do yourself a favor and contact each states VE division.

Anyone claiming to know each states regulations and enforcement for motor carriers is fooling themselves.

 

[QRTRHRS]

When stopped by Vehicle Enforcement they will simply use portable scales under the trailer axles. Whatever the reading is better not exceed the trailers weight rating....but again, that figure is open to interpretation. Is it the the combination of the axles rating or the trailer rating? Depends on the LEO to be honest. In some states they don't even consider the axle rating...thats a fact. They simply weight the gross (truck, trailler and load) and compare it to your plated weight.

Because it generates more revenue for the states, make sure the plated weight of your truck isn't exceeded by your gross. In some states, thats the first thing they look for because not only do you get the citation for axle weight, but now you have to go downtown and increase the plated weight on your tow vehicle and the state gets more $$$$ yearly.

so, you could have a load of only 9,000lbs on a trailer AND axles rated for 12,000lbs+ but be overweight because the truck is plated (registered) for only 8,000lbs.

There isn't any one source to determine each states regulations...I wish there were, it would make my job a lot easier. Do yourself a favor and contact each states VE division.

Anyone claiming to know each states regulations and enforcement for motor carriers is fooling themselves.

That is exactly what happened to farmer friend of mine in PA back in 06' or maybe before. He had a load of hay on his F550 and his BP trailer. They actually had him disconnect his trailer to get the exact weight on it.

He got fined for overweight and had to increase the plate on the F550. This was in farmer (un)friendly Berks County with local DOT trained police officers not state.

I would also suggest weighing the trailer empty to see if it actually does come in at 2k empty weight.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

It's confusing at best. Do your best to research the state(s) that you will be traveling in and go from there. DOT regs were mostly written for OTR semi's and have very little info for the little guys trying to be compliant. Also, the internet is full of free advice and its worth what you paid for it. There are many members on here with good advice and a lot of "professional" drivers who don't know a dam thing. Either way, none of them will go to bat for you when you get pulled over. You are always better to air on the side of caution than to try and barely squeak by.

 

[Ken45101]

It's confusing at best. Do your best to research the state(s) that you will be traveling in and go from there. DOT regs were mostly written for OTR semi's and have very little info for the little guys trying to be compliant.

I think it varies state to state. If you are non commercial, in some states I do not think the regulators have authority over you. Other states they may.

Then there is the issue of which states require a CDL whether you are commercial or not. Some states have a low weight limit (e.g. 10,000#) and require a CDL above that. Then there is how well they understand your home state rules and if they respect them. As was stated earlier, it's confusing and unclear and just because the state law says one thing, doesn't mean that the inspectors go along with it.

Feel free to correct me if I am wrong.

 

[RedNeckRacin]

Ah, i think the 10k is off, unless your combo is over 26k but i agree otherwise.

 

[sacmarata]

Ah, i think the 10k is off, unless your combo is over 26k but i agree otherwise.

The 10K rule applies to having a DOT or not. Anything exceeding 10k involved in commerce has to hqve DOT and UCR.

 

[schmism]

The 10K rule applies to having a DOT or not. Anything exceeding 10k involved in commerce has to hqve DOT and UCR.

caveat to above, most states have exemptions for farm tag'd items as well as RV's and equipment meant to transport personal belongings (aka moving truck)