Ruts in concrete on Interstate Highway

[ultrarunner]

I was with friends up in Montana and woke up to 9 inches of fresh snow... driving a motor home.

The Highway Patrol said we had better head South unless we planned on staying the winter... I said we don't have chains and the Patrol said just be careful...

Now had I been driving 80 to Tahoe the road would have been closed waiting for the plows and then snow or chain requirements...

So many times I have been driving on the California side with chain requirements on snow/ice free roads... once asked a retired CHP about it and he said Chain Control works wonders in keeping the Bay Area weekend warriors off the roads.

When I bought my Euro Delivery BMW it came with M+S rated tires... many people asked why I would have M+S tires on a BMW in Germany in August... they pay a lot more attention to tires there and everyone has a winter and summer set... with restrictions only on the Autobahn... you have to know yourself on surface streets as no one is dictating.

 

[plowhog]

I-80 over Donner Summit was resurfaced in 2012, only five years ago.

I just today drove over Donner Summit on I-80. Heavy rain, lowest temp was 35 degrees at the summit. Was making it back to Reno before it turns to snow.

Two observations:

1. Driving in the ruts does cause hydroplaning, from mild to alarming. No more slow lane for me during rainy conditions!
2. It seems the ruts are exclusively in the slow lane, pronounced and visible during upgrade/ascending conditions. Going up a grade with chains on would exert maximum force against the concrete, I suppose.

The weird thing is that except for last year, there were four years of drought, with minimal snow. So although there was much chain use last year, probably very little in the four years prior. On five year old concrete?

Perhaps the culprit is .... global warming! The concrete is just being heated more than it used to? :laughing:

 

[plowhog]

Ultra,

My uncle was going up a grade at Big Bear, CA in his 45' Prevost motor home. Then the rain turned to snow. Then the snow was sticking and the road was white. He said his face was about as white as the road until he got back to dry conditions!

 

[Egon]

It's always interesting to watch the P/U's with the tall wide tire's when conditions get icy.

 

[oosik]

We have some sections of highways around here that have really rutted concrete sections. The highway dept is pretty good about this condition - usually they will have the section repaved with asphalt.

You want a REAL wakeup call. Be riding your motorcycle along in cruise control - hit one of these rutted sections...... biting small oval holes in the vinyl seat cover.

 

[coobie]

I see that when I travel to Indiana from the amish horse carriages on the paved roads.

 

[David_Kb7uns]

So tell me, where do the ruts on Interstate 5 come from in the central valley in California that are so bad I have to keep the car hauler in the left lane when I drive over it. Studs........ think again TRUCKS.

Until they get rid of the short staffing at ODOT and make sure roads are 100% ice free 24/7 from my driveway out to town I will keep the studded tires. ODOT just finally decided to start using salt in eastern and southern Oregon as the mag chloride is not cutting it for deicer.

David

 

[PILOON]

Most tires on passenger cars say "M + S" on the sidewall. Mud & Snow. You actually have to try to get
so-called "summer" tires, as most say "M + S". My pickup tires are "all-terrain", but are intended as
all-around tires. I once had "mud-terrain" tires on a pickup (loud!).

What are the cops looking for on the sidewall for tires to comply with that Canadian law?

The approved winters have a pictograph of small fir trees on the sidewalls.
These approved winters have a softer rubber composition to grip icy surfaces.
For those in the know the date codes are also a give-away.

Earlier M & S had decent treads but a harder rubber composition that did not grip as well on ice.
With the new tire code forget overlapping seasons as the softer winters will wear out really fast.
LOL probably good for drag racing however.

Mind U they don't 'stop and check' but if you are involved in a collision without approved tires that is when the fines hit you.

Now collisions are another whole new topic. Surveyors and investigators can shut down a highway for many hours as the gather evidence.

 

[plowhog]

I traveled over Donner Summit again today and noticed the ruts are also on the downhill slope areas. I still think they are bigger and more predominant on the uphill segments but they are definitely in all areas.

 

[zing]

Most tires on passenger cars say "M + S" on the sidewall. Mud & Snow. You actually have to try to get
so-called "summer" tires, as most say "M + S". My pickup tires are "all-terrain", but are intended as
all-around tires. I once had "mud-terrain" tires on a pickup (loud!).

What are the cops looking for on the sidewall for tires to comply with that Canadian law?

In Nova Scotia our temperatures are tempered by the Gulf-Stream (brings warmer water up from the Gulf of Mexico) and our proximity to the ocean. That means we usually have a warmer winter than central areas that are teh same latitude or even south of us in Canada and the US. I.E. Ontario, the Dakotas, Michigan, etc, have a way colder and more snowy winter than we do. Nevertheless, when we get snow is is usually the wet, greasy type that is substantially more slippery than the dry, blowing snow of colder regions. We also have a lot of rising and falling temperatures (instead of consistent colds for weeks at a time) that causes melting water on the pavement followed by flash freezes, which creates black ice. It makes for pretty nasty driving, on a regular basis.

The M+S tires (otherwise called All-Season tires) are just marketing talk for three season tires anywhere that you deal with a snowy winter. If I hear someone talk about their "summer" tires, they are referring to all-season tires. They are made of a harder rubber compound, and even new ones with deep treads will not do very well on ice or greasy snow. Like others have said, winter tires are made out of softer rubber which stays flexible in the cold. It also causes them to wear out quickly on a hot road and gets worse fuel economy, which is why we don't use them all year round. They also have a lot of sipes (basically cuts in the rubber) that cause a higher number of ridges and edges as the tire flexes while rolling, that help grip the ice. Of course a deep tread is some help in the snow, but more important for a winter tire is the soft rubber and lots of sipes. Basically all-seasons will do an ok job in most conditions, but winter tires are specialized for a purpose and all-seasons can't really compare, just like an all season tire might get you down a dirt road but they can't compare to your mud-terrain tires if you want to really go off roading.

Our second vehicle (non-truck) is a Subaru Forester, and even with Subaru's synchronized all-time all wheel drive, there is a significant and noticeable difference between all-season tires and winter tires in the snow. Both of my vehicles have winter tires on them all winter, and my truck's winter tires are studded with carbide tipped studs because with an >8000 lb vehicle there is a lot of inertia so I like to have the bite of the studs to get me around the corners when I hit the ice.

As for the laws in Canada, it varies by province, just like by state for you guys. Here in Nova Scotia there is no law (other than Darwin's) requiring winter tires in the winter, and we all end up suffering due to the nit-wits who leave their all-season (M+S) tires on through the winter. Just making a vague guess, I would say 60-75% of cars here will have winter tires on during the winter. Probably only about 5-10% of the winter tires are studded. Studs are legal on winter tires but we cannot have studded tires on the road until after Oct 14 and they must be off again by May 1.