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  1. #1
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    27
    Location
    Colorado
    Tractor
    Branson 3820

    Default I almost broke the law...alot

    This is goes with the post below " Broke the law....a lot". Last month I shopped around for a dump trailer, biggest one I could find as I have a lot to haul. Last Jan. we had a wildland fire that took out our 40 acres, my Dad's 200 acres and burned his house to the ground. Thanks goodness we were well insured, but non the less, I have 40 acres of Ponderosa to clear, and last July we suffered 2 major floods as the burn scar won't hold water. The trailer I purchased was a 8x20 ft. tandem dually gooseneck with 4 ft. sides....nice cuz it would haul 5 cords of firewood! I had it delivered and the very next day, a friend say, hey, you need a class "A" CDL to pull that around. Are you kidding me? I already have a class "B" and drove a school bus for a while to help our school from time to time. I remember how tough it was to get that. Now, thinking how many times I would use this trailer later on, I don't need to go though all this, and it not like I'm going to use this at a full time job. Problem is the GVWR on the trailer is 20,000 and my Dodge 1 ton dually is 11,000 for a CGVW
    of 31,000 and the limit in Colorado is 26,001. So, here's what I did, call the local trailer sales and traded it in for a 14,000 dump trailer made by Texas Bragg. I am very please with the new unit. It even seems to be built tougher, and as far as the empty weight, the 20 footer was 5900, and the 14 footer weighs 5600, so I know it must be pretty tough. It's not going to haul the 5 cords, but it will carry 3 if I build up the sides a foot. Sides and gate are built better and this one has a scissor lift which I like better. I brought home 5.5 ton of rotomill the other day and it hauled like a dream....and it didn't take a CDL to do that either. LOL That monster trailer can stay put and I couldn't be happier with this one. I can say I made the right move and now weigh in at 25,000 CGVW. In a nutshell, I would have kept the other if I was in the business or used it all the time, but for me, thats not the case.

    Steve




  2. #2
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    313
    Location
    pa
    Tractor
    Kubota L48 Kobelco sk100 Kobelco sko35 case 450 Mack R600

    Default Re: I almost broke the law...alot

    Only trouble is you still need a CDL because the trailer is over 10,000 pounds the limit for some one with anything but a CDL just look over the other post completely and you will see that

  3. #3
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    27
    Location
    Colorado
    Tractor
    Branson 3820

    Default Re: I almost broke the law...alot

    Ok, this is a copy paste right from the Colorado CDL book. Read carefully on towed vehicles over 10,000 lbs. They then combine both the towed vehicle and the power units combined GVWR and you must have a CDL for any compination over 26,001 provided the power unit is not already over 26,001. My current CDL Class "B" licence states this as well. If you are towing anything under 10,000 lbs you can use just about any vehicle even a truck over 26,001.

    Hope this ends some confusion!
    Steve



    1.2 Classes of Commercial Licenses

    (See Federal Motor Safety Regulations - Part 383.91)

    CDL Class A. Any combination of vehicles with a GCWR**
    of 26,001 or more pounds provided the GVWR* of the
    vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 10,000 pounds.
    Holders of a CDL Class A license, with the appropriate
    endorsements, may operate vehicles in lower classes.
    * CAUTION WHEN TOWING OTHER VEHICLES, check
    your GVWRs.
    Many single vehicles have manufacturer's ratings that are
    below the 26,001 GVWR limitation so the operator is NOT
    required to have a CDL. However, when towing another
    vehicle, they may exceed the Gross Combination Weight
    Rating limitations and the operator is required to have a
    CDL. If the vehicle being towed has a GVWR of more
    than 10,000 pounds and the combination of the ratings
    for the two vehicles is more than 26,001 pounds, the operator
    must have a CDL Class A.

  4. #4
    Elite Member wushaw's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2005
    Posts
    3,075
    Location
    Bristol Texas
    Tractor
    Kubota L2800, 15 hp 372 Mitsubishi

    Default Re: I almost broke the law...alot

    No he doesn't.
    http://www.revenue.state.co.us/mv_dir/formspdf/2337.pdf

    You beat me to it
    But here is a link to y'alls driver handbook.

  5. #5
    Silver Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    111
    Location
    South of Perth, Western Australia
    Tractor
    Iseki TU155 Landhope

    Default Re: I almost broke the law...alot

    What a trailer!

    I'm just sitting here trying to think of a reason to "need" one...

  6. #6
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    313
    Location
    pa
    Tractor
    Kubota L48 Kobelco sk100 Kobelco sko35 case 450 Mack R600

    Default Re: I almost broke the law...alot

    If you read your own post it states any vehicle being towed having a GVWR in excess of 10,000 must have a CDL and this is federal not state laws. Your trailer you stated is rated at 14,000 GVWR there for you must have a CDL. They do not lump the weights together in order to get to the 26,001 limit. The state can not use a law that is less strict than the federal that is the reason these federal laws were put in to effect to make everyone the same

  7. #7
    Member
    Join Date
    Mar 2006
    Posts
    27
    Location
    Colorado
    Tractor
    Branson 3820

    Default Re: I almost broke the law...alot

    Ok Dirthog, I'm not going to argue here, but you simply aren't reading into this correctly. Just read the last sentence of the Colorado Handbook post, and it should be very clear, and yes they do lump them together. Now, in the very first sentence, Any combination of vehicles with a CGWR, THIS MEANS COMBINATION GROSS WEIGHT RATING, a lump of the two vehicles. Now weight rating is NOT the actual weight of the two, but the rating of which the vehicle can carry. My Dodge weights in at 8100 lbs, but the GWVR rating is 11,000.
    Trailer weighs 5600 lbs, but the GVWR is 14000 lbs. The combination of the two CGWR is 11,000 +14,000 = 25,000. Now I will have to be careful in loading gravel or heavy weights. If I were to put more than 6 ton on the trailer, I could be over the 26001 lbs limit.

    Now, Dirthog here's the Federal rule pasted below, and is the same as Colorado's rules. Again, read carefully (a) (1), its a combination of 26,001 pounds or more, provided that the towed vehicle IS, IS over 10,000.
    Key word IS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Doesn't say cannot be over 10,000

    Now read again, (a) (2), Heavy Straight Vehicle this says a class B or group B vehicle of more than 26001 lbs, any such vehicle towing a vehicle NOT in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR. This vehicle CANNOT TOW MORE THAN 10,000 without a CLASS A CDL

    Again, its right here in english, Colorado as well as Federal. Dirthog, if you want to go ahead and believe you can't tow more than 10,000 under Federal law, its ok by me. I did the best I could!

    Cheers!
    Steve



    Here's a copy and paste right from the Federal Motor Safety Regulations - Part 383.91

    Subpart F Vehicle Groups and Endorsements

    383.91 Commercial motor vehicle groups.

    (a) Vehicle group descriptions. Each driver applicant must possess and be tested on his/her knowledge and skills, described in subpart G of this part, for the commercial motor vehicle group(s) for which he/she desires a CDL. The commercial motor vehicle groups are as follows:

    (a)(1) Combination vehicle (Group A) Any combination of vehicles with a gross combination weight rating (GCWR) of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more) provided the GVWR of the vehicle(s) being towed is in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds).

    (a)(2) Heavy Straight Vehicle (Group B) Any single vehicle with a GVWR of 11,794 kilograms or more (26,001 pounds or more), or any such vehicle towing a vehicle not in excess of 4,536 kilograms (10,000 pounds) GVWR.

    (a)(3) Small Vehicle (Group C) Any single vehicle, or combination of vehicles, that meets neither the definition of Group A nor that of Group B as contained in this section, but that either is designed to transport 16 or more passengers including the driver, or is used in the transportation of materials found to be hazardous for the purposes of the Hazardous Materials Transportation Act and which require the motor vehicle to be placarded under the Hazardous Materials Regulations (49 CFR part 172, subpart F).

  8. #8
    Banned
    Join Date
    Feb 2004
    Posts
    719
    Location
    Falling Waters, WV
    Tractor
    Kubota BX23

    Default Re: I almost broke the law...alot

    Steve,
    Just give it up.
    Ive gotten myself into enough of these threads to realize that it doesnt matter how many times you post that law, the way it is written, people dont get it.
    I'll admit that CA has taken it upon themselves to rewrite the federal standards but every other state Ive seen basically says the same thing. If they want to continue to believe they need a CDL for a 10000lbs trailer, let them believe it and get that CDL. Doesnt hurt me any.

  9. #9
    Gold Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2005
    Posts
    313
    Location
    pa
    Tractor
    Kubota L48 Kobelco sk100 Kobelco sko35 case 450 Mack R600

    Default Re: I almost broke the law...alot

    Steve I don't intend to argue I do know Pa. has and will contintue to fine anyone they stop who does not have a class A when towing a trailer over 10,000 gvw for the trailer only.I also know of two people who tried to fight the law and the judge told them what his interpertation of the law was ie pay the fine your guilty. I have had a CDL for many years with the air brake and hazsmat so It does not bother me either way. They are also getting very picky about as log book DOT physical and fuel tax stamp.

  10. #10
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Sep 2002
    Posts
    2,900
    Location
    Red Bluff, CA
    Tractor
    Changes often!

    Default Re: I almost broke the law...alot

    In California you would still need a CDL, but it appears you are 100% legal in Colorado. I guess the lesson for anyone buying a bigger trailer is to call your local commercial officer and ask. We have a great staff at the local highway patrol scales and they don't mind answering such questions.
    Dave
    Red Bluff, California

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