Diesel Pickups

[cp1969]

Been reading about the new 6.4 Powerstroke.

Talk about having to sift through the chaff to find the wheat...you can find everything from statements saying it is an International engine to it being a Ford designed and built engine. Also horror stories about having to remove the cab from the frame to do things like remove the turbo. I have no idea how much, if any, of this is true.

But it got me to thinking, first about the sad state that Ford Motor Company is in and second, what would happen to the diesel truck market if Ford should happen to find itself belly-up in the hot sun.

That made me wonder why Peterbilt or Kenworth has not entered the diesel pickup market. It doesn't make a lot of sense from a practical point of view, but practicality doesn't always rule the day when it comes to boys buying toys.

How many would consider a $50K, 1-ton dually pickup made by Pete or KW, with a Cat 7.2 liter inline 6 diesel tuned for a pickup application with an Allison or Allison-clone transmission (or manual)? Think they'd sell any?

I would have done this as a poll, but don't remember how to do that.

 

[Z-Michigan]

How many would consider a $50K, 1-ton dually pickup made by Pete or KW, with a Cat 7.2 liter inline 6 diesel tuned for a pickup application with an Allison or Allison-clone transmission (or manual)? Think they'd sell any?

I would buy this quickly but I can't imagine that sort of thing selling for $50k. Ever heard of the International CXT? It's basically what you propose, though bigger, and they are somewhere over $100k.

 

[cp1969]

Yeah, I might be low. I'm not talking about those enormous things, like the Monroe-GM thing. Just a normal, 1-ton dually.

 

[beagdog]

The new F-450 pickup easily tops $55,000 in MSRP, and this is a truck that is being built in Ford's established assembly plant using the same body parts as the other SuperDuty lines. I think you would be easily exceeding $75,000.00 for Paccar to even try to market something comparable. I also think it would sell out any level of production they could muster. Especially with Cat power.

 

[IH250]

I think all brands are pricing there diesel pickups out of sight.Its getting harder for me and probably alot of others to justify the cost.I have a 2006 250 4x4 with the 5.4 and its plenty for what I do but the V 10 was only 600 more and from what I have read its a real powerhouse for towing.The diesel option is what, about 6 grand now thats crazy.People are claiming about 11-12 with the V10 unloaded I only get 14 with the V8.Unless you tow alot why would anyone want the diesel, here in screw york diesel is more than reg unleaded and now the headaches with ulsd not worth it for 6 grand.

 

[beagdog]

I bought my '05 F-350 SRW late in '04 and seriously considered the V-10. I have regretted not going with it ever since. The incentives that have been offered on Ford trucks since I bought mine as well as Fords unique way of changing model years 3 times in 2 years have cost me nearly 50% depreciation in just over 2 years.

I will never again buy a diesel truck for my uses, if I ever decide to just suck it up and take the hit on this one. Diesel will never be cheaper than gas again and the fuel mileage because of all the emissions standards mean the fuel mileage difference between gas and diesel is non-existant for most users.

I've owned Ford diesel pickups since 1984, but this will be my last, and probably my last Ford truck of any kind, they just don't get it anymore.

 

[Z-Michigan]

I think in fairness to the big 3 that the diesel engines really do cost A LOT more to make than their gas V8 and V10 engines, especially with the 2007 emissions requirements. Couple that with a big step in torque that requires a bigger transmission and I think the price premium of $6000-10,000 is based in reality. (Ignoring the fact that all big pickups represent something like $10,000 in basic profit per unit!)

I am the happy owner of a 2006 Ram 2500 with the Cummins. It cost a lot up front, but we get 14-16mpg in local driving, 18-19mpg on the highway without a trailer, and 13-15mpg on the highway with a loaded 3-horse slant trailer. Everything I've read tells me we would lose about 5mpg on each of those with a gas engine. Perhaps more importantly, we can go up a steep grade at 70mph in cruise control with a 7000lb trailer and it doesn't even feel like it's straining. I don't think the V10 engines will do that. We'll have to keep the truck a long time to make up the cost difference, but I am quite happy with it. It's nice being able to go 400 miles between fuel stops when you have an anxious horse in a trailer that's 30ft long.

I also met a guy with a 2004 or 05 Ford Excursion with the diesel who told me he gets 20-22mpg in regular driving. Compare that to about 9mpg for an Excursion with the V10.

By the way, GM actually has a website trying to sell heavy-duty truck customers on gas engines, based on their lower up-front cost and the lengthy time to get a financial payback on current diesels. I don't remember the address but you might look it up (it's something like "choose gas"). When I was last there they were giving away free mugs just for filling in your info.

 

[beagdog]

I also met a guy with a 2004 or 05 Ford Excursion with the diesel who told me he gets 20-22mpg in regular driving. Compare that to about 9mpg for an Excursion with the V10.

QUOTE]

I'm in no way unhappy with either of my 6.0 diesels, but I don't care for Fords way of screwing up the resale of their vehicles by changing model years every 6 to 8 months. The value just isn't there anymore.

I also have an '04 Excursion, with a 6.0 and I am very pleased with the mileage it delivers, but, unless the one you saw was chipped, he's not seeing that kind of mileage out of a 6.0. Mine will do 18 all day at 70, but you won't see 20-22 unless you're running 60 with a tailwind.

I had 7.3's in both an F-350 SRW and an '01 Excursion, and they would both do about 2 mpg better than the 6.0s in exactly the same vehicles. I'm sure the emission controls have a lot to do with that.

 

[Marlowe]

I've got a Ford 1999 with a V10. People ask me all the time about the gas mileage. I remind them that I didn't buy a V10 to get mileage. I bought it to tow and haul heavy stuff, and it does that very well. I've also got a diesel pickup. It's a 1986 Isuzu. Now we are talking mileage. That little pickup gets an honest 40mpg and is as reliable as sunrise, but I drive the Ford. There's more to life than mileage, and the Ford's never let me down either.

 

[TwinCreek]

I have a 2005 F350 Lariat, crew cab, dually, fully loaded. Paid around $50,000 and it has left me stranded over 1,000 miles from home three times. The bad part is that I was towing a 10,000lb trailer each time and pure luck was the only reason people didn't die. Ford has absolutely ignored the problem and continues to refuse to fix the truck. They forced me into filing a lemon law suit. This is definitely the last Ford I will ever buy.

I have been researching the 2.5 ton trucks and would gladly pay $75k for a full crew cab with a cummings or cat motor.

As far as I'm concerned, Ford can fall into their grave tonight and I will cheer.