Steiner 230, no implements/powersteering

[GhostPhantom]

I have a Steiner 230, diesel with the Sundstrand series 15, u type transmission. The problem I am having is the unit moves forward and backwards fine, with a lot of power, but I have no power steering or implements (no lift on the deck, no hydraulic weight transfer and nothing at the aux ports). From what I致e read it points to the charge pump, but the pump motor relies on the charge pump to feed it oil (and as I said the machine moves great with good power). I have tried to check the pressures at the different ports and most are very low the only one that has approx 200psi is the one on top closest to the check valves. If anyone has any ideas or things I could try to get this up and running without just buying parts and trial and error it would be very much appreciated. If you need more infomation, I have plenty, lol ?Rob

 

[Raw Dodge]

There's a chance your charge pump regulator spring is broken or weak, or the valve is hung up, but it's not likely. You may have a blown o ring in the pump, a ,60 cent part, or the pump and motor may just need to be resurfaced. If you tackle any in the system you will need access to a high pressure 10 micron filter and hoses to adapt to your existing fittings..this setup costs about 150-300 to make depending on what's a available at the time on ebay...and what you have laying around. ...

 

[Raw Dodge]

Here are some illustrations for the 420/430 pump, I'm about 99 percent sure the 230 pump is identical. .the small o rings, numbers 38, failed in my 420, and it creates a massive internal leak that uses all the charge pumps capacity, leaving nothing left for the steering and lift...i believe you'll likely find one or both blown out.i recommend you use oem o rings, and parts for the pump..i don't know how difficult access is on the 230, but on a 430 I could remove the backplate of the pump without removing the entire pump, resurface everything replace o rings and reassemble,in about an hr and a half to 2 hrs, then loop filter it , and you should be good to go..first I would check the charge pump regulator spring and valve although they rarely are the problem. .

 

[GhostPhantom]

Thank you very much for throwing me some ideas... I was wondering the same thing about the motor starving the implements with a leak internally. I have checked the implement and charge check valves many times and I don not beleive them to be the issue... (I even swapped them out with another unit I have... no luck) I guess I have a weekend project ahead of me... it's a little tight in the chasis, the hardest part is removing the drive shaft and dis assembly of the u-joints.
Thanks again... I will be sure to let you know what I find.

 

[Raw Dodge]

You only need access to the back plate..if you can get it off your golden..on the 420 it's below the steering wheel and easy to access by removing a simple 4 bolt guard..just both hoses and 4 bolts and it's off..i know the 230 has an entirely different setup.You must have a massive high pressure leak that's why I say an o ring..unless the charge pump is trashed, it can't have a snapped charge pump sheer pin because you'd have nothing at all..

 

[GhostPhantom]

Hi Raw,
I was able to look over your schematics more now that I am home from work... it looks like the 420/430 pump is totally different then the 230's u-type... but you have me in the mood to tear it down, so I am going to get into it first thing tomorrow and see if I can locate any issues inside. I was going to load a pic from a Sundstrand manual I got online but for some reason its telling me I have an incorrect extension on the file.
If you think of anything more I should look at while I have it apart... please let me know.
Thanks again ...Rob

 

[GhostPhantom]

THIS IS VERY LONG WINDED SO… SORRY IN ADVANCE
So, I said I would let you know what I came up with…. A little more background…
I purchased this Steiner 230 diesel for a song, with a transmission that would go full reverse and little or no forward… sometimes when you tried to go forward and let it come back to neutral, it would take off full reverse… very dangerous. So, after checking the linkage and looking at the schematics, I decided it might be something really wrong inside (plates, pistons etc…) or it may be something simple (roll pin sheared). Never having a sundstrand u-type apart, I had no idea. So I started disassembling this thing… what a pain in the “you know what”!!! (it gets easier the more times you do it, but still not a fun job).
I lucked out, after cleaning everything up and pulling it apart in a clean area… it was the roll pin on the “Swash plate” sheared. I cleaned everything and reassembled, looking at all the parts to see if my untrained eye could see anything else wrong. Everything seemed fine… I put the tranny back in the Steiner, hooked up that drive shaft that they didn’t leave enough room for (so you have to undo it from the crank and disassemble a universal joint and hold your breath while standing on your head just to get it out!!!). Filled the oil and triple checked everything…
Fired it up…. Nothing… started thinking about everything I had read… ahh ha charge pump needed turned around… bingo!!! Had power both forward and backward, had to adjust neutral…. I hop on it for a test run, weird “no power steering, no lift on the deck…
Run it for a while seeing if it needed the air bled out, full left and right turn as my dad taught me all those years ago…. Nothing…
Since this first time of pulling this tranny
- I pulled this original tranny again and took apart again and reinstalled – same issue.
- I purchased a used “good shape” from a JD off of ebay… pulled apart and changed the shaft to the correct side, installed – same issue.
- I pulled apart the original one last time and reinstalled – same issue.
- I checked the charge pump pressures and it seemed like it was pointing at the charge pump being bad, but I had plenty of power forward and back. And those things are mucho$$$$.

After getting this thing about a year ago and ready to give up… I decided to join this site… and after discussing my issue with Raw, I decided to give it one last try. I pulled apart the JD tranny I purchased again, since it was just sitting on the bench, hoping to find the magical item that was wrong.
Everything looked good!!!

I drag my eight year old son to the garage to start the removal of the original tranny again and he wanted to help, so I hand him the correct size wrench to break the hoses loose… dreading the “drive shaft removal”… and I start thinking about when I was checking the pressures and breaking lines loose to see if there was flow…. Then it hit me… The implement lines in the top/back of the u-type tranny may be “switched”. I look at all of the manuals and pictures I have collected over the past year and “nothing”, not one picture showing the hoses and how they hook up. So I decided to switch them and…
Voila… all is good…. Everything is working as it should!!!
Note to self… when taking something apart in the future that you have never done before… use that stupid I-phone you pay a arm and a leg for to take pictures… lots of pictures!!! I hope this helps someone else in the future…
…Rob

 

[Raw Dodge]

Thank you for the detailed explanation! The first time I took one apart,I was very nervous.I bet now your an expert! Not sure what you paid for the used one but it's handy to have an extra around! I wish I did,I'd probably get the spare all dressed up and drop it in a plastic bag on the shelf,and just swap when I had an issue. you threw me for a loop because you said you had checked charge pressure and it was very low...I don't think the manufacturers of these machines really care about us poor guys who need to disassemble them down the road.they just want us to buy a new one!

 

[farm boy00]

THIS IS VERY LONG WINDED SO… SORRY IN ADVANCE
So, I said I would let you know what I came up with…. A little more background…
I purchased this Steiner 230 diesel for a song, with a transmission that would go full reverse and little or no forward… sometimes when you tried to go forward and let it come back to neutral, it would take off full reverse… very dangerous. So, after checking the linkage and looking at the schematics, I decided it might be something really wrong inside (plates, pistons etc…) or it may be something simple (roll pin sheared). Never having a sundstrand u-type apart, I had no idea. So I started disassembling this thing… what a pain in the “you know what”!!! (it gets easier the more times you do it, but still not a fun job).
I lucked out, after cleaning everything up and pulling it apart in a clean area… it was the roll pin on the “Swash plate” sheared. I cleaned everything and reassembled, looking at all the parts to see if my untrained eye could see anything else wrong. Everything seemed fine… I put the tranny back in the Steiner, hooked up that drive shaft that they didn’t leave enough room for (so you have to undo it from the crank and disassemble a universal joint and hold your breath while standing on your head just to get it out!!!). Filled the oil and triple checked everything…
Fired it up…. Nothing… started thinking about everything I had read… ahh ha charge pump needed turned around… bingo!!! Had power both forward and backward, had to adjust neutral…. I hop on it for a test run, weird “no power steering, no lift on the deck…
Run it for a while seeing if it needed the air bled out, full left and right turn as my dad taught me all those years ago…. Nothing…
Since this first time of pulling this tranny
- I pulled this original tranny again and took apart again and reinstalled – same issue.
- I purchased a used “good shape” from a JD off of ebay… pulled apart and changed the shaft to the correct side, installed – same issue.
- I pulled apart the original one last time and reinstalled – same issue.
- I checked the charge pump pressures and it seemed like it was pointing at the charge pump being bad, but I had plenty of power forward and back. And those things are mucho$$$$.

After getting this thing about a year ago and ready to give up… I decided to join this site… and after discussing my issue with Raw, I decided to give it one last try. I pulled apart the JD tranny I purchased again, since it was just sitting on the bench, hoping to find the magical item that was wrong.
Everything looked good!!!

I drag my eight year old son to the garage to start the removal of the original tranny again and he wanted to help, so I hand him the correct size wrench to break the hoses loose… dreading the “drive shaft removal”… and I start thinking about when I was checking the pressures and breaking lines loose to see if there was flow…. Then it hit me… The implement lines in the top/back of the u-type tranny may be “switched”. I look at all of the manuals and pictures I have collected over the past year and “nothing”, not one picture showing the hoses and how they hook up. So I decided to switch them and…
Voila… all is good…. Everything is working as it should!!!
Note to self… when taking something apart in the future that you have never done before… use that stupid I-phone you pay a arm and a leg for to take pictures… lots of pictures!!! I hope this helps someone else in the future…
…Rob

I have learned the hard way to. ALWAYS TAKE PICTURES

 

[johara1]

When you take a bunch of hoses of you tag them, with colors and wire them on. Like red to red blue to blue and so on………. jim