Spend my money on a welder.

Status
Not open for further replies.
   / Spend my money on a welder. #11  
I wouldn't buy an AC only machine either. However, I would buy an DC only machine.

Everlast has been around 5 years already. We've stood the weathering of the small business model problems. No one said it has been easy, with the learning curve being quite steep. But customers are still calling order consumables for units they bought shortly after we began, with no issues. We are expanding rapidly and setting up a dealer network in the same places you find Miller and Lincoln. People said the same thing about Thermal Arc when they started, but here they are.

Scooby, if you bought recently, your machines were basically assembled here, not made here. Electronics are made over seas, as in the case of the computer you are writing this on as well as many other places Everlast's machines contain, German, Chinese, American, Japanese, and many other countries parts.

As far as after warranty repair, the machines from Miller and Lincoln will cost you more to repair in actual dollars than the cost of one of our units. In fact to repair a tombstone AC 225, will cost you more than it is worth to buy a new one as well. Additionally Lincoln manufacturers those lower end products in Mexico from Chinese and other components. The higher end inverters from Lincoln are made in Italy from european and chinese parts. As far as parts, many people in repair services have called us wanting to become repair centers because they have either bought one or know of someone who has and have seen how simple and easy they are to work on.
The issue arises that labor rates quickly outpace the value of the unit. This is a similar issue with any welder brand that is out of warranty. Typical repair costs for many welding machines easily rise to 60% of the units replacement cost even for small repairs because of the cost of parts. While our parts cost are extremely low, it is the labor rates that make repairing less appealing to a customer. Parts for Everlast units are name brand, off the shelf electronic items, resistors, capacitors, chip sets, displays, are all items that any reputable electronic repair center can get. As in contrast with Miller and others, with highly proprietary components, you will only find the source of the parts back through Miller or whatever company you bought them from. Also, many parts now for the major companies are obsoleted now in 5-10 years, depending upon the popularity of the units. A lot of parts are only still available by the fact they may be the same ones used in later models. I had a problem with my Lincoln welder that at the time was only 10 years old and they had deleted several parts already. I had to end up paying several hundred dollars to get it repaired. I recently had a toggle switch fail on the unit as well. One basic toggle switch cost me 75 dollars. I replaced a muffler, that was built only for that machine and it cost me over 200.00. The main reason it was fixed was for sentimental reasons as there are plenty available in the same model and vintage for under $1000.00

The CENTURY brand of welders comes from a small factories in China that Lincoln has negotiated with to import. Quality is much lower and less advanced than the Everlast.

We've had ZERO problems from these little PowerArcs and they are simple and reliable as they come, but have more capability than the average inverters.
 
   / Spend my money on a welder. #12  
PoleKat,
buy the everlast, so we can get some more feedback! I'm sitting on the fence about what welder to buy next too, but with more bells and whistles, so about a grand more in price....so still collecting data. We all know what the Tombstone will/won't do, the newer style machine will either be a joy or a future headache. Only one way to find out
 
   / Spend my money on a welder. #13  
OK, I'll chime in a bit.

I have two relatively inexpensive Lincoln tombstones - an AC only, and an AC/DC. The older AC sits in the barn and welds maybe once every two years. The AC/DC is in the shop and has gotten hard use with essentially DC only. They both work well and reliably.

Just bought an Everlast PowerArc 200 last week so haven't done much. But it welds smoother, more consistently, and with less splatter than the Lincoln AC/DC. You get a very nice bead with 7018 and great penetration with 6011. It seems to need less amps to do the same job.

The Lincoln is on a hand truck and is difficult to move around even then. The Everlast is about 40 pounds so can be taken anywhere 220V is available.

My only complaint is that the leads are a bit short for what I'm used to. Have you compared the cost of copper cable lately? Yikes! Replacing the cables with longer will just about cost what the machine costs.

Oh, and the 6010 negative socket does make a difference even with 6011 - very smooth starts. Same with 7018 on the regular negative socket. If you ever tried restarting 7018 on a transformer machine you know what I mean.

The PowerArc 200 was purchased because the Lincoln (125A) would not run 3/16" Stoody 31 on DC well at all.
 
   / Spend my money on a welder. #14  
Couple things, You really can not compare a 1930's technology Tombstone Welder to the 21st Century Inverters. Not even close. I'm not saying buy an Everlast either. I sell Inverters 100 to 1 over Transformer machines and I can tell you that they are refined from 20yrs ago and they flat run...Also people keep saying this or that is made in the USA when if you do your homework or are a seller, You would know that the Welder Manufacturers, Miller included source parts from all over the world including China and some assemble them in the USA. Others have Plants and Factories all over the world making it easier to manufacture there instead of Importing and then assembling. The Asians are wayyy ahead of us in electronics and I think you have to agree. Buy what you want and you will be happy with it but to compare just on price or where you think it was made may not be the wisest. Actually, Most brands will serve you for years to come. I surely don't mean to offend. Good luck..
 
   / Spend my money on a welder. #15  
I did most of the welds on my backhoe subframe with a Smiley Tools 200amp inverter that belongs to a friend of mine. He wanted me to try it out. :)

I also have a little Harbor Freight 80 amp inverter that has been trouble free.



 
   / Spend my money on a welder. #16  
If these are your only two choices, I would go with the Everlast. First it is DC which gives you a steadier arc. Only in limited situations would I prefer AC. The other feature that I really like is what Everlast calls "Easy Hot Start". All Lincoln stick welders that I have seen don't have that feature which is why I don't like Lincolns. Miller has this feature.

The PowerArc 160/200 can seriously out weld the Lincoln,(or miller for that matter) I can promise that.

I am a Miller man, but I wouldn't disagree with Mark on this point. If a new participant comes into a market with established heavyweights, with good reputations for reliability, the new guy (Everlast) will have to offer "more for less" or they will soon be history.

The dilemma for a buyer is: "Will the new guy make it?" If Everlast does make it and becomes another Miller, then you got a great deal by buying now. If Everlast fails, then you may have bought a collectors item. :mad:
 
   / Spend my money on a welder. #17  
I prefer the older Hobart machines (used to build them), but I was in at Weiler Welding this AM getting a replacement gun for my 20 year old Handler 120 and they had some nice Thermal Arc welders in the catalogs. ThermalArc now builds my Hobart TigWave 250 in maroon/grey colors instead of gold/black. ThermalArc bought the 250 amp and up machines from Hobart's to satisfy the sale agreement to ITW back in the mid 90's. My second choice is the Miller units.
 
   / Spend my money on a welder. #18  
As I have posted before, the major guys aren't TOO BIG to fail. Miller is a subsidiary company of Illinois Tool Works, as well as Hobart its rising little brother. ITW bought both Miller and Hobart when they were hot potatoes and floundering in the 80's and early 90's. Century and Marquette were bought by Lincoln and essentially gutted. Forney is a shell of the company it once was, importing italian and chinese made machines with mostly a consumable and welding related line for auto parts stores and the like. SureWeld became part of Linde. Linde/L-Tech was swallowed by ESAB. Daytona who knows where they are, but the line partially survives with htp. Thermal ARC has part of what was left of Hobart, if my understanding is correct as a deal in the merger. These were all major giants a few years ago. Miller is having substantial layoffs, while hobart is holding steady last report I had from a designer acquaintance/friend I had there. Lincoln seems fairly stable, but is sourcing heavily out of country.

It all boils down to the fact that no company is too big to fail or get swallowed up by another fish.
 
   / Spend my money on a welder. #19  
Mark: are their foreign parts in a current generation miller welder? Likely. But tell me where you can source electronic components here in north america, in the volumes required? I dont think thats possible?

I can say that miler uses the "Made in the USA" label, which means that a substantial part of their manufacturing/cost is here, not overseas. People who like to point out that miller and the others use foreign components tend to be dealers of 100% foreign machines. IE: "See miller uses foreign components like us, so were just like them."

I say look around in industry, at least where ive worked in maintenance and heavy fab, All ive ever seen was Miller and Lincolin, with the odd ESAB or old Hobart around. To me this speaks volumes.

To the OP, if your just looking to stick some things together, look around for a used Miller or Lincolin AC/DC machine. They last and last and will likely outlive us all.

Sure a modern inverter machine, will outrun a 50 year old transformer design, but theres something to be said for the old technology when it comes to durability. A US made inverter will be 3x the cost of the chinese models. those savings all arent coming from chinese labour or markup :thumbsup:

the $39.99 DVD player from walmart comes to mind. Penny wise:pound foolish
 
   / Spend my money on a welder. #20  
Well,for me it was lincoln/miller/hobart,,now its lincoln or miller.But I'm one of those over 50 guys.

But,it always amazes me when people [who can't weld,but buy a welder cause they want to weld],buy a no name brand ac buzz box in order to save a few hundred over a ac/dc name brand buzz box. Welding is not like sawing a board in half,takes skill and practice,and its hard to learn on cheaper ac machines or cheaper 110 migs.And your not saving that much anyways.

All these tv shows and boards like this give many the idea that welding is just like pressure washing or building a deck,or sawing some fire wood,they think yeah,get me a welder and I'll weld stuff,might even make me a trailer or something,many frustrated and surprised people out there I bet:laughing:
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
 
Top