clean power generator questions

[rhett]

How does one determine if they have a "clean power" generator?

I ask because, Mark @ Everlast and their website state some of their Inverter machines would be suitable for use with a "clean power" generator. My needs are for field use and remote locations without Grid-Power.

Mark, if you read this, I have a TroyBuilt 5550w continuous/8500w surge generator and would like to use a PowerArc 160 or a PowerArc 200. 1/8" rods are what I will burn for most every project. My genset runs my Lincoln WeldPac 155 OK, but 6010 and 7018 weldments are preferred. I would not want to buy an Inverter machine and only ruin it from not asking the question.

Thanks
Rhett

 

[jdonovan]

Take a look at your generators manual.

If it is a sine wave generator, then it should be clean.

If its a square ware generator then its dirty.

A modified sine, or stepped square is 'less clean'.

 

[Haywire]

I looked it up and they don't outwardly claim clean power, but I couldn't see an owner's manual without a serial number.

Ian

Edit... They have 2 different models of 6k troybilt at the lowes site. One says "automatic voltage regulation - no" and the other says "yes". Both are $700 gensets.

 

[Redneck in training]

Clean power has no harmonic frequencies present. It is pure sine wave. For transformer devices (such as welders) it is important that the wave is symmetrical. If it is asymmetrical there will be partially DC current flowing trough the transformer winding possibly burning it. In example there are special dimmers for low voltage lights.
I don't have experience with inverters but my guess is that those care less about quality of power.

 

[jdonovan]

found the manual as a link from here

Nothing in the manual about waveform on the alternator....

BUT usually generators that are sine, or modified sine wave advertise as such as they are a bit more costly to make.

There are some larger 10k troybilt's I've seen that do say they are pure sine wave generators.

 

[rhett]

Thanks everyone for the help,

Below is all I can extract from the manuals available. It is an older model before Sine wave became a selling point, maybe that is why it is not listed in the specs.

The generator is an engine driven, revolving field, alternating current (AC) generator.

I have powered several desktop computers and TV's, no issues noticed. Also, some searching said generators with brushes are Sine wave, it has a Rectifier/Brush Assy. Then again on other forums, some say yes and some say no.

Dang, is putting it on an oscilloscope my only option? A pita, I do not have an oscilloscope, which means a full day going to the big city just to find out.

Thanks
Rhett

 

[Haywire]

You might try calling or emailing troybilt tech support, if there is such a thing.

Ian

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Rhett,
Most everything said is indeed correct. We do have a little tolerance for low hz because we are safe between 50 and 60 hz. But the sine wave shouldn't look like someone drew it with Parkinson's (my sympathies to anyone who suffers from this terrible disease).

I am NOT one of the electronics experts in the company, but I do know there are "conditioners" that can be bought for some of the better units to clean up the power to acceptable standards. With that said, we have some guys running the products on gensets from the 70's. We warn them though...

 

[wrooster]

All direct-coupled generators produce sine wave output. That is, generators which consist solely of an engine mechanically connected an 120vac/240Vac alternator produce sine wave output -- equivalent to what the utility company provides. Note that with a direct-coupled generator the engine RPM has a linear effect on both alternator output voltage and frequency; the engine must run at a constant RPM (typically 3600RPM or 1800RPM, for 2 or 4 pole alternators, respectively)

Which brings us to inverter-generators, which operate somewhat differently. In an inverter-generator the engine drives an intermediate voltage alternator (typically 12 or 24Vac), and in turn that output is rectified to DC. Subsequently, that DC voltage is used as input to a waveform generation circuit -- which is basically an inverter. Depending on the complexity/cost of the waveform generation circuit, the resultant inverter output can be a squarewave, simple stairstep, modified stairstep, or a true sinewave. The primary advantage of the inverter-generator topology is that it decouples the engine RPM from the output voltage and frequency; only the engine output power is relevant. For low load applications, this means the engine can be run slower, which translates to lower noise and lower fuel consumption. The downside is that dynamic response of inverter-generators is worse than direct-coupled generators, as in an inverter-generator there is less mechanical inertia to counteract high inrush current situations (like starting motors on compressors or pumps).

Summary -- if your generator is a direct-coupled type, you are getting a sine wave out of it.

Wrooster

 

[rhett]

.....
Summary -- if your generator is a direct-coupled type, you are getting a sine wave out of it.

Wrooster

Wrooster, Thank You so much for your detailed descriptive Help and saving me so much time and money! My generator is a direct-coupled type, so it looks like one of them there light, High Tech machines is on my list to be ordered the first of the month. Kinda waiting for test and performance results of the units they now have in stock.

Again, Thanks for all the great Help,
Rhett