Patronizing local welding supply shops

[Spencer]

I just read another thread here on TBN where someone gave the advice to buy your equipment at the local welding supply shop instead of over the Internet. I am wondering how much extra you guys are willing to pay to patronize these shops. My major purchases have been a Thermal Dynamics GTS 190 tig welder, an auto darkening helmet, a Thermal Arc DragGun plasma cutter, a Miller welding cart, a Miller Spectrum Cutmate 375 plasma cutter, and today I bought a Miller LMSW-52T 220 volt spot welder with weld timer.

I tried to buy the tig welder through one of the local welding shops but neither of them carried the Thermal Dynamics line. The one welding shop that I wanted to (and have) developed a relationship with said they could order it for me but it would be at full manufacturer’s list price and I would have to pay shipping. They were much more interested (understandably) in selling me a tig welder from one of the manufacturers that they dealt with. I had my heart set on this little tig welder from Thermal Dynamics though. It had everything I needed in a small 19-pound package. So I decided to go ahead and order it from a dealer I found on the Internet who sold all his equipment at a substantial percentage off list price. He took my order and the unit was shipped directly from the manufacturer to my house within a week.

Next I wanted a small portable 110-volt plasma cutter with built-in air and luckily my local welding supply shop had the exact one that I wanted. I ended up paying about 80 dollars more (before tax, I don’t hold tax against the local shop) to buy it from them instead of ordering it from that internet dealer but I wanted to patronize my local dealer to keep them in business and build my relationship with them.

Next I wanted a nice welding cart for my tig machine that would hold my fairly tall Argon bottle. They had a nice Miller cart in stock and again I paid full list price (around $240 as I recall) but I wanted to give them some business.

Then I wanted a larger plasma cutter for thicker metals. I got a quote from my local shop and then checked that with the Internet dealer. They were a couple of hundred dollars higher but I didn’t automatically order it online. I went back to them and explained that I was going to buy a machine and I can get it for X dollars online but I would really like to buy it from them. So I asked them if they had any room to move on price. They came down a little and because I wanted to build this relationship with them I bought it from them. I ended up paying $140 more (before taxes) than I would have online.

So a month or so ago I decided it was time I got a portable spot welder (Miller LMSW-52T 220 W/WELD TIMER). I called the local shop and asked for a quote. They called back a while later with a quote of $851.05 for the unit I wanted. Miller’s suggested list price is $899.00 so that is only a 5% discount off MSRP. Even Graingers sells this unit for $837.50 and the online dealer sells them for $735.00 with free shipping.

All day today I wondered if I should call the local shop back and see if they had any room to move on price or just order it online. I decided just to order it and be done with it. I am tired of having to beg for a measly discount from these guys. I bought all my protective clothing, auto darkening helmet, gloves, gas and consumables from them but I guess that has got me nowhere. I am just a one-man company and 2002 was the worst year my business has seen in a long time. I don’t think they appreciate my business as much as I thought they would.

So is this normal, do you guys all pay full price (or near to it) at your welding supply shops? The online dealer doesn't get charged any freight from Miller so I doublt my local shop does either. I can't believe that the online dealer gets that much larger of a discount from Miller but maybe he does.

 

[beenthere]

Maybe because the on-line dealer doesn't have a building with fixtures (store or shop) and doesn't have to carry any inventory on the floor. All he has is time and paperwork invested, and collects your money and probably makes just what the local guy makes on each deal on the bottom line. Scary thing to drive out dealers, but looks like that is what will happen. And the local guy probably answers most of the questions that we have.

Don't hear me wrong, as I buy on-line sometimes too. Just ordered some TurboCad software today, in fact.

 

[Spencer]

beenthere, I agree that the online dealer may not have as much overhead but he does have an actual store and he is a repair shop as well. I'm not looking to drive my local shop out of business and that is why I have bought major items from them at higher prices. On a purchase like this spot welder though, where they are going to have to order it from Miller just like the online dealer I don't understand why they aren't willing to be more competive. They could have made some money on the transaction and they wouldn't have had to carry any extra inventory. All they would have had to do is a little paper work and a phone call just like the online dealer.

 

[Anonymous Poster]

Having burned rods for more than 3 times as long as you've been in business, I might have a little different perspective.
The first thing I'll tell you is dump the Thermal Dynamics equipment before it is 5 years old, the company doesn't support their product worth squat after that time. Thermal just quoted me $750- plus freight both ways to repair a plasma cutter and they won't send out a PC control card to either me or the dealer. Needless to say, they also won't be selling me any more machines.
I've been with the same dealer for over 40 years, because of SERVICE. It's the 2nd dealer in this town I did business with, and I went there because the first one lyed to me on tank leasing.
I really can't tell you how many machines I've bought from this dealer, and how many I bought at auctions, but I currently own 3 heliarcs, 2 gas drives, and a MIG, along with plasma and 4 sets of torches. When I have a problem, the dealer is there to help me out. When I need a machine for a short period, he is there to rent it to me. When I need consumables, he has them in stock. When I need delivery, it's on the way on the dealer's truck, and I'm not loosing time going to fetch it.
He operates 2 locations in town, 4 trucks, and is a family owned business. He pays tax on his buildings, insurance on his operation and trucks, and employs about a dozen people.
Strange as it may seem, I rarely ask the price of things when I buy them, because I know he has to make a living too, and I've never felt I was treated badly.
When I need a regulator rebuilt, he gets it done, or tells me straight it ain't worth rebuilding. Same goes for torches.
When I want a hose of a certain length, he makes it on the spot. When I have an idea how I want to do a job, he will tell me if there's a better way. I've even sold used machines to other weldors in his showroom, when he didn't have what they want, and there were no hard feelings.
When I wanted to buy something that wasn't right for what I wanted to do, he told me what was right, and convinced me.
He has even hooked up 2 machines to prove to me I needed something other than what I went in to buy.
When I hooked up a tank at 3:30 on Friday and found it had a defective valve, he ran one to me on his way home.
He even operates a school affiliated with the local BOCES night program, and demo area at one of his locations.
What he makes on a machine doesn't concern me one bit, he earns it. Frankly, it isn't my business, and what I make on a job isn't his business. He doesn't compete with me, and has sent work my way.
He ain't the big guy in town, and may not have the fanciest accomodations, but this guy does business the right way, and looks out for his customers.
It's all about SERVICE. The joy of a lo price will be forgotten long before the memory of bad service is forgotten. I have little doubt similar dealers exist across America, you just need to look for them. They sure as he!! don't exist on the internet.

 

[wroughtn_harv]

You tell it Franz. I'll applaud and scream "AMEN!"

Just last week I changed welding suppliers. The old guy I'd only been with for about ten or eleven years. The new manager (three years) lied to me about a tank lease so I just took my lumps, went down the street where I had known the owner's father back in the old days and everything's the same but different.

I'm in the middle of an interesting event with a major company that says maybe service isn't a word of the past.

I've found these days there is this philosophy that doesn't set well with me at all and I find it everywhere. It's the "what can I give you to make you feel better" versus "we'll make it right and we apologize." I don't want to be bought off. I agreed to a price and I'm willing to pay it. I just want it to do what it's supposed to do.

Last week end we used almost two pallets of Maximizer sacrete. I did all the mixing. Out of seventy eighty pound bags probably only ten were good stuff. The rest was mostly sand and portland and was more like using plaster than anything else. What really ticked me off about it was I felt the stuff on the first pallet to make sure it wasn't some of the trash I'd gotten before. I'd felt the top of the pallet where the ten good bags were.

When I went to my local Home Depot to pay my revolving charge I mentioned to the guy in charge of commercial accounts that Maximizer's mix was going to heck in a handbasket. When he asked what I was talking about I took him over to two open pallets they had on the floor and bigger than shinola in a bottle one was good stuff and the other was the bad.

He put me on the phone with his sales rep from the factory. The sales rep thanked me for bringing the flaw to his attention and he'd make sure the information was passed on. Then he screwed up. He asked what he could do for me. I told him that the best thing he could do for me was to make sure the stuff was good from now on. It would make my day if I never bought Maximizer again and it being a bad mix.

I know sales people. He ain't gonna make waves. He's gonna smooth it over with me and that's it.

So at lunch I made up an email. It went to the manager of commercial sales, investor relations, and a trade magazine. I explained how they had a good product but they had a problem that was going to ruin it for them.

Their response has set me back and made me reconsider just what the real world is. I'm to meet the sales manager of commercial products, his boss, the man who has the patent on the mix for them, and they want me to demonstrate my use of their product to the managers of the plant where it's made in Hurst Texas.

The want to find and fix the problem. Ain't that a shocker?

We've agreed to coordinate our schedules Monday morning and agree upon a time when all the principals can get together next week or so.

 

[JATO_RaT]

My uncle sold welding supplies and equipment for most of his life. First with Linde/Union Carbide and eventually opening his own place in Santa Clara, California. He was one of the last independents until Praxair bought him out just a few years back. He always told me, the profitable end of the business is in the consumables like gas, abrasives etc., not in the equipment. Equipment typically was sold at just above cost to cover handling and carrying costs. His gas product is really what was the bread and butter of the business. In the surrounding Bay area, there's a great deal of electronics firms needing gasses. While he was an independent and very small, he aquired many of the accounts through persistence and quality service. Delivery was always accurately quoted and timely, a practice he demanded from his employees. His price was more then competitors and the firms that needed gas knew this, but it wasn't a low price they wanted, it was assurance that what they needed and when they needed it was secure. Needless to say, his business was very succesful. Rat...

 

[Spencer]

Franz, I am glad that you have had such a good relationship with your dealer. I can see how you have benefited from the service that your dealer provides. I doubt I will ever need the kind of service that you have needed and if I do I probably won't be anywhere near my dealer anyway. I travel across a good portion of this country for my work and if something is going to break its going to break while I am out of town. I have asked my dealer in the past what would happen if I needed a machine repaired and they said that they would just send it in to the manufacturer. I have only had my Thermal Dynamics unit break down on me once and sure enough I was out of town. I was on a 3 day job and I only had 2 days to get it done. There was another 3 day job waiting after this one so the breakdown couldn't have happened at a worse time. Luckily it was during business hours on a weekday so I got on my cell phone. I called Thermal and after a few people I got in touch with someone quite familiar with my machine. The high frequency wasn't working at all. So this guy had me do this test and that test and it was looking more and more like the a circuit board was bad. He couldn't believe it because they had never had a failure of that board in the past. So he kept plugging away at the problem and we finally figured it out. It was something so stupid I felt ashamed of myself. My unit uses "dinse" (I think thats what their called) connectors for the cables. These have a rubber boot around them so you can't actually see the mechanical connection of the cable to the connector. The cable had simply come loose from the connector on my ground cable. So after an hour or so on the phone I was back in business and I haven't had another faliure of that unis since. I was in the State of Ohio when this happened and if the unit did need a circuit board the guy on the phone would have let me drive the unit to their facility and replace the board while I waited. He never asked me how old the machine was or if it was under warranty, he just was as helpful as he could be right from the minute he got on the phone.

 

[Spencer]

wroughtn_harv and Franz, I would like to hear the problems with your tank leases. I only have one tanked leased and that it a "Q" size argon tank. If I remember right I paid somewhere between $150-$200 when I first got the tank from them but I don't recall any other details of the transaction.

 

[Spencer]

<font color=blue>My uncle sold welding supplies and equipment for most of his life....He always told me, the profitable end of the business is in the consumables like gas, abrasives etc., not in the equipment. Equipment typically was sold at just above cost to cover handling and carrying costs. His gas product is really what was the bread and butter of the business.</font color=blue>

Rat, I was the service manager of a power equipment business and that was run just like your uncles business. We sold the new machines at great discounts and made our profits on the parts and service end of the business. You only have the chance to sell that machine once but you have a chance to sell parts and service for that machine for years to come.

I haven't gotten any discount on my welding helmet, gloves, jackets, sweat bands, ceramic cups, collets, tungstens, filler rods, welding rods, welding cables, clamps, gas, and I don't even know the names of all those little parts I need to replace all the time in my plasma cutters torches. I don't expect to get a discount on these items and I rarely even ask the cost before I buy them. These are the items that keep me coming back into their shop all the time and I want them to stay in business so they are there when I need these items. I guess because of my background in the power equipment business I just can't understand why they are always trying to get me coming and going.

 

[Taylortractornut]

I hate my local supplier, its a parts house that deals out Nex Air products. We had one shop here that was a dedicated welding supply but after nasa moved out we lost it. I bought my first welder and torch set there and if i had a problem it was instantly fixed. They had any type of supply you needed and a knowlegible staff. When they moved the local Carquest took the bottle and consumable parts. They re terrible but if a bottle leaked theyd replace it or if it had damaged threads. The folks that took over Carquest now dont give a rast tail about anything. I needed a bottle of argon and they were out 2 weeks had to drie 50 miles to get one. they wont give discounts, If you have a problem with your bottles tough. There a little better on them now. I picked up a bottle last week that had gotten low and was traded in they had a mix up it did have a fair amount but i paid for a full bottle so i used it up and then called them saying the threads were passin air. Kinda cheated a bit. The week i got out of the hospital from my car crash i needed to get a bottle of oxygen. My dad put the bottele in my rack on the truck and i went to town. I had a broken left hand and a right leg. I had to use a walker and couldnt reload the bottle so i asked the attendent to help me he told me they werent allowed to but Ive seen them do it. I called NexAir in tupelo and my freind brian was there i told him what had happened, He told me to go back in 15 minutes, When i got there Brian had issued several tail chewings. They loaded the bottle and didnt charge for the tank. Brian told me when the district manager heard of it they almost lost there bottle rental. Theyve approached me a few times to open up one in my shop but in the summer i work way from home. one other thing with the local shop is one person working the desk a brazing rod may be 50 cents a peice the other gut may go up to 2 .75 each.