Plasma Cutter Choices

[Mark @ Everlast]

Here's an updated PP60C done by Torchmate,a well known CNC company, just so people can see the torch and the unit and its performance, just released this afternoon. This is with the included machine torch. And no, contrary to Jim's assertion, it isn't a blowback copy as he erroneously points out, and it isn't HiFrequency start. Its a high voltage, low frequency(relatively speaking) start and uses the HF type torch from Trafimet, the A81/P81. ONE comment they made to us is that it pierces extremely fast, and were surprised by it. No, it won't change any diehard guys minds, but it does clear some things up about the ability of it to cut and perform. 60 amps. Not bad for 950.00, torch included.
YouTube - ‪Everlast 60c Plasma Cutter on Torchmate 2x2 CNC cutting 3/16" mild steel‬‏

 

[jimcolt]

The torch that is in the you-tube video on your last post is a high frequency start trafimet machine torch...probably the s-75 torch. A high frequency start torch utilizes a high voltage/high frequency (much like the high frequency used in AC tig welding) to create a spark between the nozzle and the electrode.....the plasma gas (air) passes through this spark and the air becomes ionized (more conductive)....this conductive air then creates a path for DC.....first from the negative electrode to the positive nozzle....forming a low current DC pilot arc (which can fire in air...and appears to be a bright arc exiting the torch nozzle).....if the plate is within close proximity (depends on the design....but usually within 1/4" or so..the arc transfers to the plate and current ramps up and the cutting process begins. Your torch is a high frequency start torch.

A blowback torch (which also is produced by Trafimet among many others) eliminates the high voltage/high frequency and instead used a spring loaded electrode....when air pressure is present at the torch the electrode pulls back (blows back) away from contact with the nozzle...creating a short circuit DC spark....which ionizes the gas creating a path for DC to fire a pilot arc and transfer to the plate...just as a high frquency torch does.

I am quite aware that Torchmate can use a high frequency start torch...they have used thousands of Hypertherm and Thermal Dynamics high frequency torches over the years. All of Hypertherm's industrial plasma systems use high frequency start...and there are about 250,000 of them installed on cnc machines worldwide. Our air plasma torches are all blowback, non high frequency start......as with air systems this starting technique has proven to be very reliable and safe (much lower voltage in the torch body).

I have been in the plasma cutting business for almost 34 years.....and have used many of Trafimets torches.

Mark, I have not been knocking your product in any way....have not even mentioned the brand name that you represent. My posts were to help answer the questions (from the original poster) regarding why the major brand plasma systems are more costly as compared to the imports.....and I believe I covered that well. In fact....I made it clear that there is a good market for low cost plasma systems.

Best regards, Jim Colt

Here's an updated PP60C done by Torchmate,a well known CNC company, just so people can see the torch and the unit and its performance, just released this afternoon. This is with the included machine torch. And no, contrary to Jim's assertion, it isn't a blowback copy as he erroneously points out, and it isn't HiFrequency start. Its a high voltage, low frequency(relatively speaking) start and uses the HF type torch from Trafimet, the A81/P81. ONE comment they made to us is that it pierces extremely fast, and were surprised by it. No, it won't change any diehard guys minds, but it does clear some things up about the ability of it to cut and perform. 60 amps. Not bad for 950.00, torch included.
YouTube - ‪Everlast 60c Plasma Cutter on Torchmate 2x2 CNC cutting 3/16" mild steel‬‏

 

[jimcolt]

Two Kubotas! Bought them both used! If I was buying new I would have bought two Deere's. I was ready to pull the trigger on a new 30hp deere and a Gator......when I found a 5 year old L431 and an RTV900 each with less than 75 hours.....at about $5k less (each) than I could get the Deere for.....couldn't resist! I do have Hobart and Miller migs though.

Jim

Jim... I won't mention on the Hobart Forum you own a Kubota.

Sidecar.....

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Jim,
The S series from Trafimet are ALL blowback. So, this isn't it. I just said that this is an P 81 toch. The A(hand) and P(machine) series are all HF intended torches.

As I explained, it is a high frequency torch, that we use, but we are NOT using High Frequency. We are using High Voltage to start with a "special" ignition system that we have been working on with the factory for a couple years now. Its much more reliable than HF starts from our testing, and faster than blowback. Don't be confused because it isn't HF. It doesn't interfere with electronics. I know you have a lot of experience in Hypertherm, but you may not be experienced with this start style. I know one thing, it costs a LOT more to build.

As for Pilot Arc, this unit has Pilot arc as well. And our IGBT HF units have pilot arc. Of course the blowback ones we use do. The blowback units have it as well. If you watch the video, the flame starts and never gets close to the metal and arc transfer is little further than 1/4" I believe. And, yes, it will fire in mid air.

 

[jimcolt]

Thanks for clearing that up.....in your earlier post I thought you stated that it wasn't a HIfrequency start torch. The torch is indeed designed as a high frequency start....but your power supply producer has developed a non-high frequency circuit.

This technology is not new....Thermal Dynamics had a CD start circuit for many years....Hypertherm used a patented "pulse start" circuit (an inductive (DC) pulse) on its HD4070 and HT4400 industrial systems, and Kaliburn has another type of start circuit that is patented.....you may want to check to ensure you are not infringing!

You are correct that if you can produce a start circuit with a strong internal ionizing arc that does not use high frequency...that you will produce less RF noise that can affect sensitive electronics.

I am not up to speed on all of the Trafimet part numbers...so sorry for thinking that torch was one of the S seies torches....they all look alike on a blurry video!

Best regards, Jim

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

This start was developed without any knowledge of the Hypertherm units and I am sure its quite different since it does hold some of its own patents in China and internationally I believe.

 

[jimcolt]

I am not so worried about ours as we have discontinued the models we used it on....we developed a solid state (no spark gap) high frequency circuit that is more reliable. On industrial cnc machines....high frequency is not an issue.....the cnc controls are hardened to live in that environment. You should probably look at Kaliburns patent....it is fairly recent.

Jim

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

I am pretty sure Kaliburn wasn't on the radar either. Our factory is one of the largest manufacturers in China of CNC for the Chinese market and do a pretty good job of engineering. People think the chinese have no engineering capacity, but they do, and they have a good idea about how to employ unconventional methods and applications, just as our HF start is made in our units isn't the typical way other make theirs. We have been working with our factory on our specs and some features, and I definitely got no feel this was a copied, or inspired design.

 

[deereman75]

this has once again just became an argument between Mark and Jim. I have to say that I agree with Jim on what he said about buying used top of the line. When I needed a 7 inch angle grinder, I had a budget of $50, and about the only item in that price range was a powerfist grinder from princess auto. Now I knew that it would wear out fast, so I went to a pawn shop and bought an old black&decker industrial 7 inch (identical to the new metabo 7 inch) for $45, and I doubt I will ever kill it. I really want a plasma but I just dont have the budget yet, maby in a year or two I will get a powermax30. (the guys at air liquied always give me the biggest discount the computers will allow) How thick can the powermax 30 sever (most of my work will be 1/4 inch, and I have a cutting torch for the thick steel, so the thick would be stuff the torch couldnt cut)

 

[jimcolt]

deereman,

The Powermax30 will sever 1/2" pretty easily...but slow. It does a geat job on 1/4" and below. I have a few jobs that require cutting a 45 degree bevel in the end of many pieces of 2 x 3 x 1/4" wall rectangular tube. I used to set up my horizontal band saw for this job...and would spend about 4 hours cutting about 60 pieces. I built a nice little guide jig out of some 3/16" steel that slips over the outside of the 2 x 3 tube....and I now use the Powermax 30 to cut the 45 degree angle on these tubes...I have cut the production time down to about 1-1/2 hours with the plasma. The cuts need a small amount of grinding afterwards....but the speed increase is what I needed!

Another nice thing about the 35....it is very portable, and will operate on 230 volts or 120 volts. If you are cutting the thickest materials at 120 volt...it can draw about 25 amps....and a standard outlet is 20 amps. I run mine on 230 most of the time as the amperage draw is only about 13 amps.

Attached is a picture of the Powermax30 torch, and a severance cut on 5/8"....thicker than the factory rates the 30 for!

Jim Colt Hypertherm

Sorry about the arguments with Mark. I just like to get the facts straight!



Jim Colt