Stick welder vs. Oxy/Acetylene???

[MossflowerWoods]

I'm not ready to buy yet, but I am starting my research.

I'm worried I do not have good enough power, nor is there a space in/near the house I'd feel safe welding, so a stick welder seems not for me.

But there are many negatives to tank welders also.

So, which is better and why? :confused2:

Thanks in advance,

David

 

[Gary Fowler]

oxy/acetylene welding is usually good for thin material. It take a long time to heat up thicker material to the melting point. It is extremely hot work when you have a thick piece orange hot and trying to fuse it together. I have both and use my torch for cutting and really thin stuff (less than 1/8") that I cant stick weld very easily. I also have a small 110v FCAW / MIG machine that is practically useless due to power and duty cycle.
If you have an electric dryer connection, then you have the power to run a stick welder or 220v wire machine. Most newbies to welding prefer the wire feed MIG with inert gas shielding. They are easier to weld with than a stick machine for inexperienced persons. Thicker pieces require multiple passes just as a stick electrode does, but MIG / FCAW can weld any thickness material that you may have- just make several passes and dont try to carry to large of a fillet weld.
Each of these machines has a place and ideally, you need all three in order to be ready for all repair possibilities. I think that if I had only one choice, it would be a 220 volt MIG/FCAW (wire feeder) I like to use inert gas with those as the welds have fewer porosity pores with good shielding gas but the gas is not cheap and neither are the gas cylinders. I think the initial investment would run you around $1000 for a good one with a full tank of gas and a spool of wire.

 

[deereman75]

O/A. The first welder we got was a blueshield duo light industrial torch kit from air liquide. I have nothing but good to say about it, all we did was add a smiths aircraft torch from ebay for the thin stuff. Just for the torch kit and tanks, not including the aircraft torch, was around $1000 (and that was after a big discount) I recall that the torch kit had a normal price of around $500, but he gave us a really good deal, so it cost around what the lincoln cutwelder costs ar home depot. He also gave us a really good deal on the tanks. If you want to get a good O/A torch kit that will last a lifetime, it will cost between $1000- $1500 (depending on how nice the guy at the lws is, and how good of a mood he is in) Now this seems like alot, but it is by far the most useful welder you can have. You can cut with it, gouge with it, heat with it, weld with it, braze with it, solder with it, even bend glass tubes to make neon signs. (I would like to see you do all that with a mig welder) Now in second place, I would put a good stick welder, they can weld thicker easier, but that is about it. I know you can use a carbon arc torch for heating and such, but it is not nearly as good as a big rosebud on an O/A torch. You can also cut with a stick welder, but the cut looks like it was done with a welding tip. Last in usefulness I would put a mig welder, just because it is basicaly only for welding thiner material. You can not do anything but welding with a mig. Sure you can weld thick stuff with a big mig, but it will be harder then with a stick. Also, mig is the easiest to learn, but the hardest to master, anyone can make a weld with a mig welder in seconds of training, but it will almost always be a poor weld. It is very easy to make cold laps with a mig, where as it is actually fairly hard to do with a stick welder. Look at the tests shield arc did with differnt stick electrodes, and also a mig welder. The mig is stronger, but if anyone can do that with a mig welder within a few days, I would be amazed. It is very easy to make mig beads look that good, but very hard to make them that strong. Where as with the stick welder, it would be much easier to get welds that strong.
Now for people saying O/A is only good for thin metal, and stick is only good for thick, I beg to differ. I have welder 1/4 inch wall pipe to 1/4 inch plate with my O/A torch, and it is very strong, 100% penatration. I have also welded 1/16 inch wall tube onto 1/4 inch angle iron with a lincoln tombstone with 3/32 rods, at 75 amps, and it worked fine, virtualy no burn through. (and I am not a very good welder, you could get as good as I am in a week or 2). I would say O/A first, but you can do well with either stick or O/A, as I said, I have done work I should have done with stick, with O/A, and work I should have done with O/A, with stick.

 

[k0ua]

David you have already been given pretty good advice. I have both O/A and a 160 amp DC stick welder. All of the processes have their place, Stick, O/A, Mig/gasless wire and Tig. Do you not have 30 amp's at 240volt available. ? That is what my little PA160 everlast takes. Stick is versatile and will do a lot of things, but takes a while to learn how. O/A is invaluable for heating and will do many of the things that TIG will do but requires quite a bit of skill, and it is not cheap to set up or to use. Stick is the cheapest to buy and to use. I do small projects in my walk out basement, but If welding anything big or prolonged I just take the tiny Everlast PA160 outside and plug it into an outlet I have on the side of the house with an 25 foot extension cord and have at it. Of course O/A is completely portable. Be advised on O/A that the size of the Ace tank will determine the amount of gas that can be safely withdrawn from it in a given time period. This will preclude the use of a large "rosebud" heating tip on a small tank, and also the larger welding tips for welding thicker material will also require a larger tank. Just some of the things to keep in mind when deciding what to select.
120 volt stick welders are very limited in what they can do, and 120volt Mig welders are doable but usually limited to thin materials or multiple passes on thicker materials. A good Miller or Lincoln or Hobart 120volt Mig will set you back around 1000 for welder and first bottle of Mig mix gas. I hope this has given you some ideas.

James K0UA

 

[MossflowerWoods]

Do you not have 30 amp's at 240volt available?

James K0UA

James,

The electricity is a bit flakey at my house, but yes, I have a 220 for the stove and the dryer, but they are in use.

I need ANOTHER drop of 220 for the welder, right?

That is where I am confused I think... :confused2:

Then, yes I do have a small dry spot in the walk out basement, but it is full of stuff now, hence nowhere for the welder... 50' cord will help that, and I can weld out in the yard....:thumbsup:

David

 

[kaferhaus]

I'm in the fabrication business. We use gas, stick, mig and tig for welding depending on the application.

Don't let anyone fool you, a mig welder will weld anything a stick will, is far easier to use, produces little to no smoke. The down side to mig is you need to be fairly close to the work and it can be expensive due to the cost of the shielding gas. Fluxcore eliminates the gas but is much more expensive overall as the wire is almost triple the cost.

Can you make a good looking but crappy weld with a mig? Yes you can. But a couple hours of practice can easily cure that if you have someone who knows how to weld supervise you.

Mastering any form of welding takes years of practice. I can teach anyone to produce strong welds with a mig machine in a few hours. Will that make them a "welder" ?. Heck no, not even close. But they'll be able to glue pieces of metal together fine for farm use.

Stick welding is messy, hard to learn, hard to see what you're doing etc. etc. But we sure use it a lot for structural work on very heavy (thick) steel because it's faster in that application most of the time.

Gas welding anything over 1/4" is a pita, takes forever and is expensive. Acetylene is crazy expensive.

 

[k0ua]

David just look in you Electrical box and see if there is room for a new 220 volt breaker ( breaker that takes off of both legs of the service) for the welder. Keep in mind you may not want to try to operate the dryer and welder at the same time, depending on your input service capacity, but surely you can schedule your operation of the two appliances. One thing you can do if you have to make room for a new 220/240 volt breaker is move one or two of you 120 volt breakers into "double breakers" that take 2 120volt circuits into a single 120volt breaker slot. Hope that makes sense, if not let me know and I will give a better explaination. So yes make up an extension cord of the length you need. I dont know where the dryer is physically located, but you may could get away with a long cord with a dryer plug on it and just run it into the house and plug into the existing dryer receptacle as needed for welding. I use "SO" cordage to make up the extension cords as it is very flexible, fairly tough covering, and lays flat.

James K0UA

 

[jake98]

Stick welding is messy, hard to learn, hard to see what you're doing etc. etc.

It can't be harder to see than trying to see what's happening under a mig gun.. I'm new at mig, but man, I'm sticking my face way too close, trying to look under there..

 

[PapaPerk]

I'm in the fabrication business. We use gas, stick, mig and tig for welding depending on the application.

Don't let anyone fool you, a mig welder will weld anything a stick will, is far easier to use, produces little to no smoke. The down side to mig is you need to be fairly close to the work and it can be expensive due to the cost of the shielding gas. Fluxcore eliminates the gas but is much more expensive overall as the wire is almost triple the cost.

Can you make a good looking but crappy weld with a mig? Yes you can. But a couple hours of practice can easily cure that if you have someone who knows how to weld supervise you.

Mastering any form of welding takes years of practice. I can teach anyone to produce strong welds with a mig machine in a few hours. Will that make them a "welder" ?. Heck no, not even close. But they'll be able to glue pieces of metal together fine for farm use.

Stick welding is messy, hard to learn, hard to see what you're doing etc. etc. But we sure use it a lot for structural work on very heavy (thick) steel because it's faster in that application most of the time.

Gas welding anything over 1/4" is a pita, takes forever and is expensive. Acetylene is crazy expensive.

Excellent advice!!!

 

[Short Game]

I have an AC/DC Miller sticker. I also have oxy/acetylene and would hate to be without it. I am self taught, have always been short on funds, and run the basic Red Green operation (thanks for the reminder, deereman75).

I love having the option of brazing. I have nearly stopped burning any steel and use various blades to cut when ever I can (I don't miss grinding those gas cuts). I've never had any of those fancy wire feed thingies in my hands and don't even know what mig and tig means. At one time, all I had was gas. I don't want to go back there.