Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports

   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #1  

jimcolt

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There often are a questions pertaining to air plasma cutting systems with reference to comparing the performance of the low cost machines sold by importers to the more costly major brand plasma cutting systems. There are always important considerations when buying plasma cutters and welders and these considerations can be based on the needs of a particular application. Often the major need is reliability, sometimes the need is to have a wide cut quality/thickness range, and at other times the need may be based on price, or the color (brand loyalty!).
Generally speaking....all plasma cutters will cut metal....and in some cases that is enough to satisfy some hobbyist applications. The differences that you will see if you step up to the more costly (to buy.....less costly to use) major brand systems:

- Power supplies are of the latest technology. They are designed, reliability tested and built to survive in industrial environments under the rigors of production use. The primary goal of an industrial plasma power supply is to be operator friendly, reliable and to support the torch design that is used with the power supply.

-Internal circuit boards are (on some brands) are conformally coated (so shop dust does not short them) and are mounted vertically (so shop dust does not build up on them). Cooling fans operate on demand only (so less dust is pulled through the unit). There is a "clean side, dirty side" design that keeps critical components out of the fan flow area and cools them with pass through heat sinks. Some units have automatic gas pressure....sets the proper pressure for the consumables being used, the torch length, as well as for changing incoming pressure. Ease of use, reliability, cut quality and low operating cost are the key features of the major brand plasma systems that set them apart from the low cost alternatives.

- Industrial plasma system torches are specifically designed to work with the power supplies they are used with....these are not "universal, one size fits" all torches. To get the best performance from a plasma torch....cooling, energy density, ease of use, as well as electrical power ramp up/down and gas flows are all extremely critical to the end result. Putting a plasma torch on a power supply that was not specifically designed with it will not allow performance to its full advantage.

- Major brand plasma systems after sale service and warranty is covered by a large distributor network and are backed by a factory and staff that will support the plasma long after the warranty has expired. Documentation...operators manuals and service manuals are available for each unit...and often are over 100 pages long. All good information for use, performance, troubleshooting issues and have detailed parts diagrams as well as many pages of suggested operating specs for both hand and mechanized cutting.

-Safety is of key importance as well....plasma cutting operates at higher voltage levels as compared to most welding processes. Many low cost import systems have exposed high voltage connections....and have internal and external wiring that simply does not pass safety codes (CSA and CE certifications) in many regions of the world. Be careful of safety issues when choosing some of the importers private labeled systems!

-Power supply and cutting capability specifications are correct on most major brand systems....this means you can expect to cut at the thicknesses and speeds that the units are advertised at. The cut charts listed in the manuals will provide excellent cut quality....and the duty cycle ratings are conservative. (duty cycle ratings require an ambient temperature, an amperage and a load voltage rating in order to be accurate...most of the imports simply supply a duty cycle percentage without backing it up with data).

-Torch consumable sets are designed to provide the best cut quality in conjunction with long life. One set of consumables will not cut all materials with the best cut quality.....so the major manufacturer offers choices. As an example on one major manufacturers 65 Amp plasma: it can use fine cut consumables (under 45 amps on less than 10 gauge) 45 amp shielded (under 45 amps for up to 1/2" with excellent edge squareness) and 65 amp shielded consumables for max thickness and speed. You can choose to use the 65 amp consumables for all cutting...or you can fine tune cut quality on thinner materials as advised by the cut charts.

Bottom line....the major brand units cut metal....like all plasma cutters. They cut metal very well, with extremely long consumable life...and will be around for your children to inherit with the rest of your quality tools.

It is really the decision of the buyer....spend less up front at the time of purchase for a tool, or spend a bit more and purchase a high quality tool that will (over time) cost far less (cost of ownership).

Attached pics are all cut with a major brand 85 amp plasma that can use either a hand torch or a machine torch (quick change, no tools required) so you can switch from mechanized cutting to hand cutting in seconds. The first two pics show 1/8" shims being cut (over 825 of them) ....the third pic is some 1/4" steel parts with tab and slot fitup, the last are some 3/16" aluminum. All of the parts were cut with a single set of 45 amp consumables...over 900 starts.....with plenty left to go!

Jim Colt
 

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   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #2  
HEY!!!! Now I want one. I use a power hack saw, torch, and angle grinder now. I didn't know what a clean job plasma cutters did. I'm retired and the cost of new toys is killing me.
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #3  
I have an Everlast supercut50P. Little leary as it is a foreign product and what are the chances of warranty. Well, so far I haven't had to use it, and the quality is exceptionable. Will cut beyond the rated value and with thin metal it doe's fine for me. Maybe I got one of the good one's but I sure like it. Whatever brand you purchace, I'm sure you'll find you like it. Don't forget to look at the price of consmables before you buy.
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports
  • Thread Starter
#4  
It likely will work fine for your use. On the consumables....it is more the cost per foot of cut than the purchase price. A $2 nozzle (tip) that cuts 200 feet of 1/8" steel is not as inexpensive when compared to a $5 nozzle that cuts 2000 feet of 1/8". The difference between the older or copied technology is in consumable life...reliability and cut quality.

However.....someone that only uses the system occasionally will probably not have an issue with short life consumables....just keep your fingers crossed on parts and service.

Jim

I have an Everlast supercut50P. Little leary as it is a foreign product and what are the chances of warranty. Well, so far I haven't had to use it, and the quality is exceptionable. Will cut beyond the rated value and with thin metal it doe's fine for me. Maybe I got one of the good one's but I sure like it. Whatever brand you purchace, I'm sure you'll find you like it. Don't forget to look at the price of consmables before you buy.
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #5  
The supercut 50 uses some of the older designed torches from panasonic. But the consumables vary in quality. A lot of it depends on the tin content of the copper we have found. We've tested consumables that after several hundred feet of cut showed little wear. Then I've seen some shot after just 50 feet. But in the case of price: usually you can find good quality replacement consumables at multiple places around the web for as little as 75 cents each...a far cry from 5.00. But even that is misleading, because there are actually MORE consumable parts in some of the domestic brands that need to be replaced, so it begins to add up. When you have 4 consumable items in a torch head, versus 2 or 3 in the imports, the cost of operation and upkeep greatly increases. It would take a long time to make up the difference, even if you accepted those quotes at face value. Those supercut units are our "loss" leader so to speak. If you want cheap, there you go. The PP50, is a stronger, and longer cutting unit...and given the fact that they will cut over quite well almost on pace with the competition, and the improvements that we are making every year, with a new one soon to be out...the things Jim is talking about by and large are pretty out of date, and are getting more outdated by the day. The imports are catching up fast. Sure there are still a lot of low end import cutters, that are a dime a dozen, but we have made a lot of progress in our product line.
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #6  
That plasma table picture is impressive Jim.
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #7  
Great write up.

If you can afford the big two brands they are excellent choices. However, I think it is important to mention the out of warranty service on the bigger brands like fine and expensive cars can be very costly, in-fact some cases higher than the cost of a brand new imported plasma cutters.

LONGEVITY offers a 5-year parts and labor warranty on our models with excellent service to match - in fact, I think we are the only ones with this type of warranty.

There are some pros and cons I shot off the top of my head having a big brand unit vs an import:

Pros

Consumables certainly will be available locally.
Excellent engineering and cut quality
Great product presentation including manuals, videos
Reliability

Cons:

Pricing. Yes, you get what you pay for, but if you are not a professional you can get away using an imported cutter and I bet you would not notice the difference or in some cases favor the imported ones.

Out of Warranty repair bills can be costly.

For the price of one machine, you can afford several imported units getting the job done faster if you have the workforce.

Imported products are becoming as reliable as ever. In fact, some of the major brands now outsource (I hate to see production move overseas, but I realize we are in a global economy, and that ultimately the consumers win with pricing and quality as competition rises).
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #8  
Not the only ones with a 5 year parts and labor warranty...not by a long shot. Everlast has one, along with some of the other name brands now, on some models.
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports
  • Thread Starter
#9  
As I always said....if you are buying a warranty...that is one thing. Warranties are simply added into the marketing costs of many of the low cost welders and plasma cutters.....you pay for the warranty. If you are buying a plasma cutter...the major companies will take care of you in warranty situations....much better than a promise for a 5 year warranty that rarely is collected!

The major plasma system manufactures are still happy to hear that the low cost import companies think that changing the materials used in the manufacture of consumables will bring them to the level of consumable life that is normal with the major brands!

In reality...it is necessary to have the engineering capability that can take advantage of all of the laws of high temperature physics. At least one company in the industry has over 85 engineers....15 with pHd's in areas of advanced high temperature plasma technology. These engineers continuously improve the plasma cutting process by increasing arc energy density while improving torch and consumable cooling technology.....as well as co-ordinating power supply and gas flow control output with the torch technology. Ensuring the proper level of tin in the consumables of a 20 to 30 year old technology torch just does not match todays combined torch, gas flow and power supply technology that is available in a few major brands.

Cost per foot of cut with any of the newest tech systems from the majors will outperform the low cost imports....hands down. You pay a higher price (for U.S. workers, engineers, technology and factories) and get a system with dramatically better reliability, lower operating cost, and superior performance. Over time.....the major brand is lower cost through longer consumable life (ha.....they must put more tin in the consumables!) as well as less secondary cleanup of the parts being cut.

I personally like to be able to talk with a rep from Miller or Hobart or Thermal Dynamics or Hypertherm to hash out a cut quality or technical issue.....someone that can walk from his desk to the factory floor and help determine the resolve to my issue. try that with an importer that buys his systems based on low price from a variety of Chinese factories that are willing to silk screen a logo on their product. The Chinese power supply factories do not even know what plasma torch will end up on their power supply....so how do they design for proper current ramps, proper gas flow timing, proper pilot arc current levels.....all necessary to make the torch and consumable life reach its peak!

Anyone that has owned or used a modern low cost import as well as one of the major brand plasma's care to comment?


Jim
 
   / Comparing Major Brand Plasma systems to low cost imports #10  
Jim,
Your assessments are so generalized, inaccurate, outdated, and to the point, insulting, and you are skating a thin line in your point and attempt here, after the owners of the forum removed your previous posts discusssing Hypertherm directly as advertising...then you retaliate by posting this thread. We work closely with our factory, and are in the factory during testing and development, and working with the torches. They know full well what torch will be on the unit, and design, and set the units up accordingly. There are more engineers being graduated in China everyday than you can imagine, and plenty of guys doing design work that are highly qualified, even with background in European companies in engineering products that work in these factories. You don't need 85 guys to engineer a good product...you only need one, given enough time. I could argue if it takes 85 engineers to design a good product, well then the design may have too many cooks. I think at best its a wash...

I in fact have used multiple brands extensively, including the product you represent. I will tell you in real life, down and dirty plasma cutting I have seen HT cons go down quite quickly, especially when those shielded consumables plug up with slag. On one particular brand, not Everlast I have cut thousands of feet on a single consumable, and it carried the exact torch we carry and use now. A lot of variables are involved, yes, but in a work environment, where things are subject to use and abuse, I have seen less than stellar performance. On the flip side, if everything is perfect, yes, they last...But so do ours, maybe not as long as yours, but close enough and not nearly as bad as you insinuate.

As far as contact, we have bonafide EE's and techs on staff, available for your customers and adding more with most of the product in hand, if not in personal use and experience with it themselves. And we are in daily contact with the factory to discuss and resolve technical issues, when and if they occur. I myself have spent 8-10 hours a day (or at night) working directly via video link on the floor with the factories on a technical issue eye to eye with the engineers. No, it's not in person, but it sure does paint a different picture than what you have made.
 
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