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  1. #11
    Elite Member dstig1's Avatar
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    Default Re: MIG vertical up trouble

    Haven't had a chance to try it, and it will be a few days yet until I do... I appreciate the tips.
    -Dave

    "Being a pessimist is great. You can't lose. Either you end up being right...or you are pleasantly surprised."

    L5240HST, QA, 824 Loader, 48" Forks, 48" Grapple, rear blade, box blade, landscape rake, Ancient Farmi Skidding winch
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  2. #12
    Gold Member burnieman's Avatar
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    Keep your puddle. Move back and forth but keep that puddle. It's like anything. Keep practicing. You'll look back at that piece of scrap you started on and laugh. As we are now. Not really. But it will come to you

  3. #13
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    This was only a quick run that I made while trying out a new machine, but my pattern was gun slight angle up, and quick tight ovals. Give it a try, it may work good for you. Hope it helps you bud!

    MIG vertical up trouble-forumrunner_20120618_074622-png

  4. #14
    Super Member Shield Arc's Avatar
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    Default Re: MIG vertical up trouble

    In all the years I've been welding, I have never been satisfied with my vertical up welding!
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails MIG vertical up trouble-weld-jpg   MIG vertical up trouble-vert-2-jpg   MIG vertical up trouble-v1-jpg  


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  5. #15
    Veteran Member tungularafishcamp's Avatar
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    Default Re: MIG vertical up trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Shield Arc View Post
    In all the years I've been welding, I have never been satisfied with my vertical up welding!
    LOL I would be happy with those welds even on the flat
    Rick

  6. #16
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    Default Re: MIG vertical up trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by Shield Arc View Post
    Whoa, whoa! I never run Mig down hill, unless it is 10-GA or less. Run Mig down hill on a structural job and you'll be kicking rocks to the parking lot while carrying your lunch box!!!!!!!!!!!!
    SA, I'm not doubting you, but everything I've heard elsewhere says otherwise. Matter of fact, I'm in a class right now, and we discussed this (including a video) just yesterday, and everything was vertical down. You clearly have experience I'll never even dream of, so I have to ask: why the difference? What am I missing here?

  7. #17
    Super Member Shield Arc's Avatar
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    Default Re: MIG vertical up trouble

    The main reason is penetration. I'd say 90 to 95% of the things I've welded I had to follow a WPS, (Weld Procedure Specification) or a Prequalified Welding Procedure. The majority of them were AWS D1.1 code. When I worked in a tank shop everything was ASME boiler and pressure vessel code. I have yet to see one that doesn't have a line item of: "Welding Progression". I have yet to see one that would allow you to weld down hill on anything thicker than 10-GA. But this is my limited experience.
    One time in the early 1980s I was in a welding crew that we sheeted a 80' x 80' building 70' tall out of 4' x 8' x 10-GA sheets. All welding was done with Mig .030 wire. All joints were gapped 1/16", all vertical welds were made up hill.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails MIG vertical up trouble-wps-jpg   MIG vertical up trouble-pre-joint-jpg  


    Miller Dynasty 300.
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  8. #18
    Advertiser Mark @ Everlast's Avatar
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    Default Re: MIG vertical up trouble

    Quote Originally Posted by OkieDave View Post
    SA, I'm not doubting you, but everything I've heard elsewhere says otherwise. Matter of fact, I'm in a class right now, and we discussed this (including a video) just yesterday, and everything was vertical down. You clearly have experience I'll never even dream of, so I have to ask: why the difference? What am I missing here?
    If they are teaching you to do vertical down, they are prepping you to go weld and zip together a bunch of cheap built tag-a-long trailers somewhere. Otherwise it is vert up for anything over 1/8"-3/16"...and at that full penetration is doubtful on 3/16".

    SA is 100% correct. With his "limited" experience, he sure hits it right on the head.
    Mark Lugo
    Everlast Welders
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  9. #19
    Gold Member rcowan's Avatar
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    Default Re: MIG vertical up trouble

    Our instructor made us do vert up just for practice. He said anyone can weld vert down.

    RC
    The problem with Socialism is that you eventually run out of the other guys money.

  10. #20
    Elite Member dstig1's Avatar
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    Default Re: MIG vertical up trouble

    OK, Time to revive this. I haven't had a lot of time to practice welding the past couple months, but today I had a free day and nothing to do, and it occurred to me I needed to get back to this. So I looked over this thread and tried a few things. Executive summary: There must be some catch to this that I am not getting.

    I grabbed a couple scrap cutoffs of 3/8" angle to use as practice. I figured I would weld in the corner like a fillet. I tried all manner of the suggestions on this thread. There was only one time I said to myself that it didn't look like total sh!t. The root problem is the same as earlier - the weld pool metal drips. Here is a small 3/8" fillet coupon I did for some comparison after some other practice. I did 3 different welds on this to compare - flat position, Vertical down, and vertical up. Pictures don't seem to be as good as looking at it live, but the flat and V Down looked pretty similar. The V up was one of the best ones I did, and I would still say it looks like crap.

    MIG vertical up trouble-vertical_test-1-medium-jpg

    You can see the conditions on the coupon - about 420 ipm, 150A or so (I don't think to look at the display much), and 23v with 035 wire. These figures are right off the Miller "calculator" I have.


    Here is a better example of the crap I was still getting:

    MIG vertical up trouble-vertical_test-2-medium-jpg
    Note the section of Vert up at the top (drip, drip, drip) and the Vert down at the bottom (smooth but not well tied-in, in this case, especially on the left)

    I tried a few things here in Vert up. Gun angle - I kept it perpendicular (0 deg) and about 15-20 pointed up. I had slightly better success with 0, but not much. I did some major work on wire feed at the same voltage. The charts recommend 23-24v, 420-520 ipm for 035 wire on 75/25 gas. I tried that, and then dialed the wire down to 250-300 ipm also. I got better looking welds at the low speeds, but it did not sound like normal MIG welding. I'd be concerned it was cold, but I can't be sure.

    I'm sure my technique is the fault, but I have no idea what to change after all this. I have tried everything that has been suggested and everything I can think of from what I know. Nothing looks good enough to pass in my vertical ups at this point. Open for suggestions, but not sure how much help I can get without it being in-person at this stage...
    -Dave

    "Being a pessimist is great. You can't lose. Either you end up being right...or you are pleasantly surprised."

    L5240HST, QA, 824 Loader, 48" Forks, 48" Grapple, rear blade, box blade, landscape rake, Ancient Farmi Skidding winch
    Trailer - 10k/16' twin axle w/elec brakes
    2005 F250 5.4V8(3V) 3.73/4wd tow vehicle

    My house build blog: http://stighouse.blogspot.com/

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