Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast
Results 1 to 10 of 11
  1. #1
    Platinum Member Furu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    608
    Location
    Washington
    Tractor
    JD 4720

    Default Rod Oven pops GFI breaker

    I recently acquired 3 Phoenix rod ovens (2 BVT models and 1 BHT models, 150 watts) off of Craig's list for a very nice price. The two BVT's work perfectly with variable thermostats. The BHT has a fixed thermostat.
    The BHT model does not pop the main breaker but does pop the GFI breaker after about an hour or so of heating. Did not know but found on the internet a reference to electric heaters in general as they age having a problem with stray current loss (what GFI's detect and pop for to prevent electrocutions in the vicinity of water). The unit works fine on a non-GFI circuit. Of course code required GFI in garages, shops etc.
    Being a bit leery I question whether the unit should be used or not. If the internet reference is correct a lot of our space heaters as they age will pop a GFI but we never know it if they are not used in the kitchen, bathroom or garage.
    Parts are not available from Phoenix as they discontinued the model and parts for it in 2001.
    I only really need one but they came together so I have three and will probably put the others on the shelf as backups since no parts are available. Just don't know if I want to use the BHT model or put it on the dustbin/parts bin.
    JD 4720 - 400CX FEL, Woods BB-720 Brush Bull and BH90X backhoe, Salsco 6210XT PTO Chipper, Farmi 501 Logging Winch, Bo-Dozer Grapple, LP RBT4096, Cammond Road grader/leveler and Rankin Trash Forks

  2. #2
    E/S
    E/S is offline
    Gold Member E/S's Avatar
    Join Date
    Aug 2009
    Posts
    451
    Location
    Reno, NV
    Tractor
    Kubota M8540HDC12-1 4x4 w/ Cab

    Default

    You really need to put a amp meter on it to know for sure why the bracket trips.
    For now I would keep it for parts/trade if you don't have a way to test it.

    E/S

    2009 Kubota M8540HDC12-1 4x4 w/ Cab
    LA1353 FEL w/ 7' Bucket & Pallet Forks
    McMillen X1475 Earth Auger w/ 9", 18" & 24" augers - Land Pride RCR3596 Rotary Cutter
    Gearmore 4G4 Series 7' Box Scraper w/ hydraulic rippers

  3. #3
    Platinum Member
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    571
    Location
    Sno WA
    Tractor
    JD 950

    Default Re: Rod Oven pops GFI breaker

    Code requires the GFCI protected circuits be installed during construction. I don't know of any law that requires you as a homeowner to keep these circuits such as they are. You are perfectly in your rights to replace tham with a standard non-GFCI outlet or breaker.

    Alternately, you could replace (or add) one or two 110v twist-lock outlets with a matching plug on the oven, to service only the oven. That way no now could be endangered by plugging into a u-ground and not being GFCI protected

  4. #4
    Veteran Member dstig1's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Posts
    2,113
    Location
    W Wisc
    Tractor
    Kubota L5240 HSTC, (Kubota L3130 HST - sold)

    Default

    Gfis are known to get touchy with age, too. You may want to try another one first.
    -Dave

    "Being a pessimist is great. You can't lose. Either you end up being right...or you are pleasantly surprised."

    L5240HST, QA, 824 Loader, 48" Forks, 48" Grapple, Ancient Farmi Skidding winch
    Trailer - 10k/16' twin axle w/elec brakes
    2005 F250 5.4V8(3V) 3.73/4wd tow vehicle

  5. #5
    Super Star Member k0ua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    12,772
    Location
    Branson, Mo.
    Tractor
    Kioti DK35se Hydrostat

    Default Re: Rod Oven pops GFI breaker

    This is entirely hypothetical, but is it possible that the problem is not age per se' but dust accumulation? could you take the unit apart and clean its heating elements of any dust that may be allowing a path to the shell of the oven for small leakage currents to flow to ground instead of back thru the neutral? This is just an idea, I have no experience with a rod oven, and for all I know you cannot take it apart.

    James K0UA
    James KUA

    Kioti DK35se hydrostat with 2 QA buckets, 48 inch. King Kutter Rotary Cutter. 750 lbs ballast box. Loaded tires, Construction Attachments SSQA Lightweight Pallet forks. EA 50 inch single lid "wicked" Grapple. Satisfied Everlast PA160 welder owner How to add a link to a post . Best way to search TBN


  6. #6
    Platinum Member Furu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    608
    Location
    Washington
    Tractor
    JD 4720

    Default Re: Rod Oven pops GFI breaker

    Quote Originally Posted by k0ua View Post
    This is entirely hypothetical, but is it possible that the problem is not age per se' but dust accumulation? could you take the unit apart and clean its heating elements of any dust that may be allowing a path to the shell of the oven for small leakage currents to flow to ground instead of back thru the neutral? This is just an idea, I have no experience with a rod oven, and for all I know you cannot take it apart.

    James K0UA
    That is a great idea.
    I had it apart after I first found the problem and did replace a couple of connection wire crimps thinking they might be the problem as they and their shrink wrap was showing wear. At the time I thought that might have been the problem so put it back together. Still had the problem then found the reference to "old" elements leaking.
    It is an outstanding suggestion. I will pull the heating elements and clean them. Even though the parts are not available I can remove the elements and try your suggestion. The odd thing is that it happens after the elements are/have been to temperature for about an hour.

    Thanks
    JD 4720 - 400CX FEL, Woods BB-720 Brush Bull and BH90X backhoe, Salsco 6210XT PTO Chipper, Farmi 501 Logging Winch, Bo-Dozer Grapple, LP RBT4096, Cammond Road grader/leveler and Rankin Trash Forks

  7. #7
    Super Star Member k0ua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    12,772
    Location
    Branson, Mo.
    Tractor
    Kioti DK35se Hydrostat

    Default Re: Rod Oven pops GFI breaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Furu View Post
    That is a great idea.
    I had it apart after I first found the problem and did replace a couple of connection wire crimps thinking they might be the problem as they and their shrink wrap was showing wear. At the time I thought that might have been the problem so put it back together. Still had the problem then found the reference to "old" elements leaking.
    It is an outstanding suggestion. I will pull the heating elements and clean them. Even though the parts are not available I can remove the elements and try your suggestion. The odd thing is that it happens after the elements are/have been to temperature for about an hour.

    Thanks
    Also do a very close visual inspection for any carbon tracking on the insulators that might allow small currents to flow... Clean everything real well and see what happens. Can't hurt, and who knows might fix it.

    James K0UA
    James KUA

    Kioti DK35se hydrostat with 2 QA buckets, 48 inch. King Kutter Rotary Cutter. 750 lbs ballast box. Loaded tires, Construction Attachments SSQA Lightweight Pallet forks. EA 50 inch single lid "wicked" Grapple. Satisfied Everlast PA160 welder owner How to add a link to a post . Best way to search TBN


  8. #8
    Platinum Member Furu's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2009
    Posts
    608
    Location
    Washington
    Tractor
    JD 4720

    Default

    Quote Originally Posted by k0ua
    This is entirely hypothetical, but is it possible that the problem is not age per se' but dust accumulation? could you take the unit apart and clean its heating elements of any dust that may be allowing a path to the shell of the oven for small leakage currents to flow to ground instead of back thru the neutral? This is just an idea, I have no experience with a rod oven, and for all I know you cannot take it apart.

    James K0UA
    Just an update.

    James pretty much hit the nail on the head. After the one unit had the GFI issue I plugged it into the normal circuit and it ran well. After getting his suggestion I was going to pull the elements and clean them but got busy for a couple of days. Before I took it apart I tried the GFI circuit again. Well the first hour passed where it always popped and nothing then a day then another etc.. It had to be the dust and running it on the non-GFI for several days must have "burned" the dust off as no more problems. I will eventually open it up again to look but the problem has been resolved and runs fine on GFI circuits.
    JD 4720 - 400CX FEL, Woods BB-720 Brush Bull and BH90X backhoe, Salsco 6210XT PTO Chipper, Farmi 501 Logging Winch, Bo-Dozer Grapple, LP RBT4096, Cammond Road grader/leveler and Rankin Trash Forks

  9. #9
    Super Star Member k0ua's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2009
    Posts
    12,772
    Location
    Branson, Mo.
    Tractor
    Kioti DK35se Hydrostat

    Default Re: Rod Oven pops GFI breaker

    Quote Originally Posted by Furu View Post
    Just an update.

    James pretty much hit the nail on the head. After the one unit had the GFI issue I plugged it into the normal circuit and it ran well. After getting his suggestion I was going to pull the elements and clean them but got busy for a couple of days. Before I took it apart I tried the GFI circuit again. Well the first hour passed where it always popped and nothing then a day then another etc.. It had to be the dust and running it on the non-GFI for several days must have "burned" the dust off as no more problems. I will eventually open it up again to look but the problem has been resolved and runs fine on GFI circuits.
    Yeah, gotta wonder if it burned off whatever piece of junk or dirt was making a high resistance leakage path to the shell (ground) of the appliance. Anyway glad it is working for you.. I could use one of them myself, but have been getting along OK with just my airtight storage holders.

    James K0UA
    James KUA

    Kioti DK35se hydrostat with 2 QA buckets, 48 inch. King Kutter Rotary Cutter. 750 lbs ballast box. Loaded tires, Construction Attachments SSQA Lightweight Pallet forks. EA 50 inch single lid "wicked" Grapple. Satisfied Everlast PA160 welder owner How to add a link to a post . Best way to search TBN


  10. #10
    Veteran Member
    Join Date
    Jul 2004
    Posts
    1,621
    Location
    Bancroft, Ontario
    Tractor
    JD4300

    Default Re: Rod Oven pops GFI breaker

    If it is an exposed wire element (like in a dryer)there might have been dust on it but more likely it was a cal-rod element (like in a stove element) that had absorbed a bit of moisture during storage. Once it had a chance to run and dry out for a few days things became OK.
    While not a fan of GFI's, they do have a purpose. If you remove one and down the road someone gets hurt you can kiss your butt goodbye....

Page 1 of 2 12 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Track rod assembly (tie rod end)
    By kevin3251 in forum New Holland Owning/Operating
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 12-10-2011, 06:32 PM
  2. GFI ?????????
    By Kays Supply in forum Projects
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 02-15-2010, 07:55 AM
  3. GFI Outlet wiring
    By Alan L. in forum Related Topics
    Replies: 17
    Last Post: 01-22-2008, 09:09 PM
  4. GFI tripping
    By Paddy in forum Rural Living
    Replies: 12
    Last Post: 08-01-2007, 01:06 PM
  5. GFI outlet on Tractor
    By mbower in forum Customization
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-15-2004, 02:22 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
© 2013 TractorByNet.com. TractorByNet is a registered trademark of IMC Digital Universe, Inc. Other trademarks on this page are the property of their respective owners.