weld grinding tips needed

[joshuabardwell]

is Tractor Supply competitive on the small steel pieces they sell, or should I be going to a welding supply house where I'll get
my rods? I need cheap practice material. Junk yard? Most stuff is recycled around here but I likely don't know the good hidey holes.

TSC, Home Depot, etc... are the most expensive places you can buy metal. Perhaps 2-3x the price of a steel supplier, and 4-6x the price of a scrap yard. You want to find a scrap yard that sells to the public (some only take metal for recycling). The metal will be rusty, but will be sound. Near New Holland, PA, Delaware Valley Scrap looks promising. I would also check Sullivan Scrap.

 

[daugen]

TSC, Home Depot, etc... are the most expensive places you can buy metal. Perhaps 2-3x the price of a steel supplier, and 4-6x the price of a scrap yard. You want to find a scrap yard that sells to the public (some only take metal for recycling). The metal will be rusty, but will be sound. Near New Holland, PA, Delaware Valley Scrap looks promising. I would also check Sullivan Scrap.

thanks, I had a suspicion... unfortunately I'm finding the locals are recycle only or non-ferrous. I'll keep looking.
Biggest problem I've found going anywhere near a recycle plant is getting a flat tire; I've had that happen to me and it was an expensive and annoying day.

 

[daugen]

I'm an idiot...my BIL is an excavator and he does p/t work with his equipment moving scrap around with his smaller equipment, since his shop is two doors down from the recycle place. They normally don't sell, but I think some modest application of cash should get me some decent pickings. This was the place I scored over four hundred pounds of marvelously stackable weights that came off an expensive exercise machine. The rest of the machine was a bent mess but those weights were well worth snagging out of there. Now they occupy my weight box on the back of my Gravely while snowblowing and on the front of my Case IH when using a rear implement. All for a sixpack of Heineken...

I'd like to get some plate steel useful for patching things, maybe 1/8 to 1/4 inch thick. I have some extra weights, they are over an inch thick and weigh fifteen pounds. Hmmm, maybe I could weld a couple together for practice; no one is going to see my amateur hour production hidden down in the weight box...

 

[daugen]

Too bad your welding book hasn't arrived yet. You might check the local library for a copy.

This has been a first for Amazon with me, never bought a used item from them, and likely never will again. Wrote two inquiries to seller, totally ignored.
If he sent it at all it went book rate, and I think is MIA. Now more than a month after I ordered and a request going in to Amazon for a refund.
Yes, at this rate, I will head to the local library; I send them a donation every year and used to be the President of the little library, so I bet they could find me
that welding book.

Ordering my equipment now, sure had hoped to be reading and studying long before now.

 

[IslandTractor]

This has been a first for Amazon with me, never bought a used item from them, and likely never will again. Wrote two inquiries to seller, totally ignored.
If he sent it at all it went book rate, and I think is MIA. Now more than a month after I ordered and a request going in to Amazon for a refund.
Yes, at this rate, I will head to the local library; I send them a donation every year and used to be the President of the little library, so I bet they could find me
that welding book.

Ordering my equipment now, sure had hoped to be reading and studying long before now.

Make sure you leave feedback for the book seller.

 

[daugen]

Make sure you leave feedback for the book seller.

Feedback? Oh yeah, he sold three books and two never got delivered. Wonder if he wrapped them in saran wrap, or perhaps it was all a figment of his imagination. Not replying to two
inquiries tells me the whole story. I asked Amazon to ban him.

off to the library I go.

 

[Gary Fowler]

I have read some heated discussions about 7018. Personally, I'm way too much of a novice to have an opinion of my own, so I just repeat what those who are wiser than myself say. And, Gary, let me acknowledge straight away that your contributions here on TBN put you definitively in the category of "wiser than myself," but you're not the only one I've heard talk on the topic. Here's some thoughts that I've had on the topic:

If exposure to moisture in the air is the issue, why are many 7018 rods shipped in non-airtight packages, without dessicant? Perhaps it's assumed that the purchaser will recondition them before use? Okay, fair enough.

My understanding is that the issue is not so much moisture itself getting into the rod, but chemical changes that occur in the flux in the presence of moisture. I've heard it said that heating the rod to drive out moisture (e.g. baking at 200 degrees for a long time) doesn't actually reverse those chemical changes. AWS says reconditioning requires temperature of 500-800 degrees for at least 2 hours. This seems to me to put the lie to the idea that one can fix a 7018 rod by sticking it until it steams. What do you think?

Finally: as I understand it, the point of 7018 is to avoid hydrogen embrittlement that can occur with other rods. But if other rods already incur hydrogen embrittlement, then is it the case that a 7018 exposed to the environment is no worse than any other (non-low-hydrogen) rod?

I'd love to hear your perpsective. Like I said, I'm still soaking up all the information I can get.

All welding rods should be in a hermetically sealed container (heavy plastic bag or metal can) I prefer to get 50# cans with no dents and no holes in them rather than buying the little plastic bags from Lowe's etc. I know there isn't any holes in the cans and the likely hood of the plastic bag having a hole in it to allow moisture to accumulate is pretty high.
The problem with hydrogen embrittlement is that it doesn't always occur even with wet rods, it is just a possibility or probability therefore one should always use dry low hydrogen rods. The difference between the 7018 and lets say 6010 is that the coating on the 7018 becomes a part of the weld metal when it is melted as it has iron powder in it where as the 6010 has a cellulose base (paper) that may absorb water but it all bakes out as the rod is burned AND it doesn't mix with the weld metal so there is not much likely hood of hydrogen contamination. This and the way the rods burn, ie. LH rods need to be held to a very short arc length and the molten metal sometimes freezes before the gases can float to the top whereas a 6010 usually has a much longer arc length and the gas bubbles can more easily float out of the weld metal before it solidifies. The probability that underbead cracking from hydrogen embrittlement will or can occur is why we need to take a little bit of care on using the iron powder/low hydrogen type of welding rods. YOU may have no problem at all using them when you just keep them in a plastic box laying on a shelf in your shop, but then again you may AND when the weld does fail from embrittlement, there is not warning, you wont see a crack starting at the edge like a fracture from overloading as the crack starts under the weld so when you see it, it is already in two pieces.
As for shipping in non-air tight containers, they should never be shipped that way and never buy any LH rods that are not at least sealed in a plastic bag. As I said, I buy mine in 50# metal boxes and they are good for years of shelf life as long as the can is not opened or doesn't rust a hole in it from improper storage (store in a dry area) These metal cans are air tight and the empty cans make good rod stub buckets.
Rebaking of LH rods is only allowed to be done 2 times per AWS. I don't know of any chemical changes other than rusting that takes place and you can bake at a lower temperature for longer periods of time and achieve the same results but not at 200F. AWS give guidelines for baking at lower temps than 800F but I don't recall the specifics of it now so I don't want to quote a temp and time. I keep my rods at 350F while in storage so there is not a chance of any moisture in them. In regard to 200F storage, while it may seem hot and dry, remember water doesn't boil till 212F so I would never go less than 250F for storage.

 

[IslandTractor]

Feedback? Oh yeah, he sold three books and two never got delivered. Wonder if he wrapped them in saran wrap, or perhaps it was all a figment of his imagination. Not replying to two
inquiries tells me the whole story. I asked Amazon to ban him.

off to the library I go.

Try this one, also via Amazon but it sounds like a much better established used book dealer than the one you tried the first time: Welding: Principles and Applications by Larry Jeffus - New, Rare & Used Books Online at Alibris Marketplace They sell a lot of older editions. I have the sixth which is pretty up to date (7th is current but $$$). Ten bucks for a sixth edition paperback in good condition is a bargain. Be careful though, this seller ships from both USA and UK so choose one that ships from USA!

 

[adirondackmtnman]

My ongoing question to this discussion is am I ever going to weld very light gauge steel, "sheet metal", or aluminum. Unlikely.
But I say that now. I'm guessing that when I get a machine, I'll find more uses for it.
Frankly I've been a little hesitant to get one because I didn't want to do crappy work on my own equipment; I really do know my own limitations,
and I like good work.

My 64th birthday is coming up in March so I'm going to go back to studying machines, and yes, I'll check our "local" products.
Hopefully I'm not getting too old to learn...

One of the challenges in learning by observation here is that it's almost impossible to see what's going on when someone is welding. Too bright.
So it looks like one has to practice on little pieces and simply learn how feed rate, pressure, amps, whatever, affects the final job.
Kinda like turn it off and see what you've done. Before I do that on my mower deck, I need some confidence in my welding.

But first, and thank you Jim for the nudge, I have to get a welder and just do it.
Nice to have you guys here for a sanity check. Thanks again.

Get yourself a welding helmet(they can be had at tractor supply for about $30 for a cheap hobart with a good size glass) and go watch a welder in action if you want to see an arc in motion. You could get into a decent little MIG setup for under 500 bucks, plus the cost of your gas cylinder...I would recommend if you'll be doing much sheet metal: don't but a flux-core only wire feed machine, they tend to want to burn through. I have a Hobart Handler 140 and I love it... settings are all on the machine(All starting points, you'll have to fine tune a little,) but once you get the hang of the welding thing, it's like riding a bike, it always comes back to you..

 

[daugen]

Got it done...ordered the Everlast 160sth with foot pedal from Mark, and he was very helpful.
Now let's see, when I get it, I plug it in, turn it all the way up, then connect the two leads right?

Hmmm, July 4th in March.

I have ordered two helmets, one good one (meaning around a hundred bucks) and one cheapo, so my buddy and I can take turns watching the other.
And a couple nice pairs of welding gloves and a nice little pointy gizmo for chipping away at things. I also ordered an inexpensive set of clamps.
When the welder comes in, I'll go shopping for rods, and whatever else I need.

thanks to all for all the good advice. Feel like I'm back in school, taking notes...