Everlast Powerarc 200ST

[Mark @ Everlast]

No, there is no violation to have a 30 amp breaker on a 15/20 amp receptacle, if it is inrush current (for a duty cycle limited welder). The conductor size is based off the I1eff current, not the I1max

 

[fried1765]

No, there is no violation to have a 30 amp breaker on a 15/20 amp receptacle, if it is inrush current (for a duty cycle limited welder). The conductor size is based off the I1eff current, not the I1max

Thank you for clearing that up!
A 120V/30A breaker with #12 wire, and 20A receptacle, is exactly what I am using with my I-MIG 140E.
But......until now, I did not know if it was legal.

 

[RandyT]

I purchases a Hobart Stickmate 160i (27.4 max amp according to the book) few weeks ago and on the 220v side requires a 30 amp slow blow fuse type system. Minimum wiring size requirement is 14 according to owners manual

 

[Cabin Dweller]

No, there is no violation to have a 30 amp breaker on a 15/20 amp receptacle, if it is inrush current (for a duty cycle limited welder). The conductor size is based off the I1eff current, not the I1max

Hi Mark,

Glad you are here and take an active, informed interest in the welding sub-forum. I'm a very newbie welder but my comments are derived from 2014 NEC and based on 38 years experience in the electrical construction industry on the west coast of California. Still, I may be misreading the code and, as always, it is subject to the interpretation of the local authority having jurisdiction.

A user can likely plug their 110v welder into any 15a or 20a duplex receptacle and run some beads, assuming their wife/daughter wasn't also drying her hair on the same circuit at the same time. From my read of the code if one were to pull a permit to install a dedicated 110v welder circuit for a Powerarc 200ST on the west coast of California (and the welder w/ nameplate were present) the AHJ would enforce CEC 630.11(A) and 210.21(B)(1), (2) & (3) and the exceptions. This would require conductors rated for the Ieff current of 24.3 amps @110v and call for a single (not duplex) receptacle rated at 30amps (next higher rating above nameplate Ieff of 24.3A). One would not be allowed to install a 15a or 20a single or duplex receptacle for this permitted installation. A duplex receptacle would imply a welder circuit intended for a group of welders and the circuit requirements would increase based on the specific welding equipment.

Code Reference:



If I'm missing something, help us all by citing the code section.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Cabin,
Our units go under the scrutiny of ETL for conformance to codes and safety. I think we are saying the same or similar things. I am definitely not an electrician, but I like using it to join metal. However, I do know, with 120V circuits, most people are not installing a circuit to operate it on, and it is already existing. It's a catch 22 really. All welder companies operate their 120V units over 20 amps, if the are indeed putting out the maximum 120V amperage advertised. Some companies still insist on using a "rated" amperage instead of stating separate inrush(I1max) and operating currents at max output (I1eff), I guess in an effort to skirt this issue, and put a low duty cycle on their unit at a lower rated output than the unit is capable of putting out. For example and 140A transformer MIG is typically rated at or around 20 amps at an output "rating" of 90A at 20% duty cycle. But they say it puts out 140A. And it still has a 15 amp plug and people report much higher duty cycles than rated:confused3: I had a electrician bawl me out the other day for not having a rated amperage and didn't understand the separate ratings. Well, that wasn't the first time and it is a constant issue with electricians not knowing anything about article 630 for 240V operation. Hardly ever get one involving a licensed electrician installing a 120V plug for the unit. When I do, I tell them to wire the plug for the inrush if they have any doubt, which would be a 30 amp 120V receptacle and rewire, or adapt the 240V plug. I always tell customers, (as recently as yesterday) to consult a local licensed electrician for their units. What customers end up doing is ultimately up to them. The manual tells them to, and I tell them to. Customers aren't always going to be happy with that and do get frustrated by my lack of giving advice on these things other than to talk with a qualified electrical person.

 

[Birdhunter1]

I wired a 110V 30 amp outlet next to my 240V welder outlet in my shop just for my iMig140, used #10 copper wire in conduit with the highest rated 110 receptacle I could find, never once tripped it and it works great. I often end up plugging my chop saw into it as it will often trip a 20 amp breaker at startup.

 

[Cabin Dweller]

Cabin,
Our units go under the scrutiny of ETL for conformance to codes and safety. I think we are saying the same or similar things. I am definitely not an electrician, but I like using it to join metal. However, I do know, with 120V circuits, most people are not installing a circuit to operate it on, and it is already existing. It's a catch 22 really. All welder companies operate their 120V units over 20 amps, if the are indeed putting out the maximum 120V amperage advertised. Some companies still insist on using a "rated" amperage instead of stating separate inrush(I1max) and operating currents at max output (I1eff), I guess in an effort to skirt this issue, and put a low duty cycle on their unit at a lower rated output than the unit is capable of putting out. For example and 140A transformer MIG is typically rated at or around 20 amps at an output "rating" of 90A at 20% duty cycle. But they say it puts out 140A. And it still has a 15 amp plug and people report much higher duty cycles than rated:confused3: I had a electrician bawl me out the other day for not having a rated amperage and didn't understand the separate ratings. Well, that wasn't the first time and it is a constant issue with electricians not knowing anything about article 630 for 240V operation. Hardly ever get one involving a licensed electrician installing a 120V plug for the unit. When I do, I tell them to wire the plug for the inrush if they have any doubt, which would be a 30 amp 120V receptacle and rewire, or adapt the 240V plug. I always tell customers, (as recently as yesterday) to consult a local licensed electrician for their units. What customers end up doing is ultimately up to them. The manual tells them to, and I tell them to. Customers aren't always going to be happy with that and do get frustrated by my lack of giving advice on these things other than to talk with a qualified electrical person.

Hi Mark,

That was the intended point of my initial post, though I could have stated more clearly; the welder will work on a 15amp or 20amp convenience circuit if there aren't too many other concurrent loads. Since the circuit is existing who will enforce whether it is a technical violation of use? From a practical safety perspective, if the load gets too high the breaker should trip. And if hiring an electrician to install a proper, fully code-compliant circuit one might as well pay the nominal difference for a 240v circuit and reap the added benefit of improved performance.

 

[Ritothebull]

Now that we've gotten all that out of the way :shocked:, when will the new 210st be available.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Hi Mark,

That was the intended point of my initial post, though I could have stated more clearly; the welder will work on a 15amp or 20amp convenience circuit if there aren't too many other concurrent loads. Since the circuit is existing who will enforce whether it is a technical violation of use? From a practical safety perspective, if the load gets too high the breaker should trip. And if hiring an electrician to install a proper, fully code-compliant circuit one might as well pay the nominal difference for a 240v circuit and reap the added benefit of improved performance.

I agree about the 240V, but you'd be surprised at the number of people still operating and living out of facilities/houses with 100 amp fuse panels...or less. A lot of generators too.

 

[Mark @ Everlast]

Now that we've gotten all that out of the way :shocked:, when will the new 210st be available.

At the risk of being a smarty pants: when it arrives. In production now.