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  1. #21
    Bronze Member ghenges's Avatar
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    Apr 2012
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    93
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    Greensburg PA
    Tractor
    Farmall

    Default Re: Power Beyond vs Series for loader valve?

    Quote Originally Posted by California View Post
    ............... so I moved up to this Prince LVT at $215 thinking it was the better buy.
    The Prince LVT (also LVR & LVS, same valve different outlet positions) valve is kind of the industry standard loader valve.
    It includes a regeneration function on the bucket spool that speeds bucket tip.

    4 WAY 4 POSITION REGEN SPOOL OPERATION
    This spool option allows for these four functions of the loader bucket cylinders:
    • "NEUTRAL" cylinder ports blocked to hold bucket in place;
    • "BUCKET ROLLBACK" directs oil to hose 1 to retract bucket cylinder;
    • "BUCKET TIP" directs oil to hose 2 to extend the bucket cylinder with full pressure (Please Note there is a soft stop at this handle position);
    • "BUCKET REGEN" combines the oil from the tractor pump with the oil returning from hose 1 and it directs it to hose 2 to tip the bucket faster (referred to as REGENERATION or "REGEN").

    It is necessary to push the handle past the soft stop at the normal bucket tip position to get to the regen position. Also, Please Note that the cylinder force will be reduced when in the regen position.


    http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/p.../valvesLvs.pdf

  2. #22
    Super Member California's Avatar
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    Jan 2004
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    5,652
    Location
    Sonoma County
    Tractor
    Yanmar YM240, YM186D, and another YM186D

    Default Re: Power Beyond vs Series for loader valve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neat 1500 View Post
    My return to tank is an extension piece that screws into the trans fill plug hole in which the cap then screws on top of the extension then it has a threaded hole for the hydraulic hose to go in.
    Quote Originally Posted by Scotty Dive View Post
    ... My three point was not adjusted correctly and when I had it all the way up and while using the loader I was seeing pressure spikes that buried the gauge well over 3000psi.

    Also - Hoye includes a part number HA-39 in their power steering kit that allows you to easily dump into the oil dipstick hole - See the Power steering instructioions here: http://www.hoyetractor.com/techhelp/...STRUCTIONS.pdf
    Quote Originally Posted by Car Doc View Post
    Good job Scotty nice find! I wonder what the flow rating would be as far as dumping the loader thru it? If a large enough fitting would fit the adapter say a straight instead of a 90 (looks like a 90 in the pic) that would increase flow alone?
    Quote Originally Posted by ghenges View Post
    The Prince LVT (also LVR & LVS, same valve different outlet positions) valve is kind of the industry standard loader valve.
    It includes a regeneration function on the bucket spool that speeds bucket tip. ...
    http://www.princehyd.com/Portals/0/p.../valvesLvs.pdf
    Wow! lots of good points here. Thanks everyone for your comments.
    Neat, Scotty, CarDoc - Thanks for describing and naming a source for a made-up Return fitting. I hope Hoye can provide the part separate from their steering kit. It seems to me when it is used for a loader-valve Tank Return, then it flows only the small quantity of fluid returned from a descending cylinder. And the large volume continually circulating through the open-center plumbing returns to the sump through the 3-point valve same as before a loader valve was installed. So the new filler hole return fitting doesn't need to flow a large volume and even if it were restrictive, the only consequence could be slow descent of the loader bucket, not a pressure overload somewhere. I think this quantity of fluid going in that Tank Return fitting is trivial compared to the 5 gpm running continually through the main circuit.

    Ghenges thanks for identifying that spikes can occur when the 3-point valve is routing fluid to the Lift circuit instead of dumping into the sump. I think that is the key to all of the series problems. What this means to me in practical terms is to NEVER touch the loader controls while the 3-point lever is in Lift position, only after that lever has been moved slightly forward to Hold position. This is simply a primitive workaround to a system limitation, nearly identical to never shifting these old non-syncro transmissions except at a dead stop and after the gears stop turning. Knowing now that a nasty (and expensive) spike can occur if both systems are used together - it won't be hard to remember to Don't Do That.
    Regeneration isn't included on the two-lever version of the LVT that I bought ('GB' config). I chose this primarily for install compatibility but it also saved $100 compared to versions of LVT with joystick and regen that I could find actually available for purchase. If I used the tractor daily to make a living I would have chosen that quicker valve but I use a loader only a few times a year - for example to lift an implement off the trailer and etc so simply working correctly is all I need. This tractor is semi-retired to mostly backhoe use and I use the little Yanmar generally for everything else.

    All comments are appreciated! I can't claim knowledge in this specialty, but I sure understand more than I did when I started this project.

  3. #23
    Super Member kenmac's Avatar
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    Feb 2005
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    5,696
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    The Heart of Dixie
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    yanmar 3110D

    Default Re: Power Beyond vs Series for loader valve?

    only thing I'am able to add is that, when I added my return to tank line. The line I added was too small .I used 1/2'' ID. Loader still didn't perform very well. I changed to 3/4'' ID line and have had no more issues.If you have no way to add a return then, you will have to go with the best route. If I wouldn't have had an inspection plate? I would have drilled and tapped the tranmission to get my loader to perform correctly.With the 3 PT in the down position , I had no problems.When I added the box blade or, bush hog to add rear weight and the 3 PT was up position, I encountered loader problems
    Yanmar 3110D
    07 Dodge 2500 5.9 Cummins
    Husky 372xp
    Husky 55 Rancher
    Maruyama trimmer
    Husky trimmer
    Redmax BP blower
    Toro zero turn
    North Star 4 K PSI pressure washer
    Honda 300 4 trax
    Yamaha Timberwolf
    liquid logic coupe kayak
    16' Tow Master Dump Trailer ,20' Yanmar Hauler

  4. #24
    Elite Member Car Doc's Avatar
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    Mar 2009
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    3,246
    Location
    Kansas
    Tractor
    YM3810D Yanmar

    Default Re: Power Beyond vs Series for loader valve?

    Quote Originally Posted by California View Post
    It seems to me when it is used for a loader-valve Tank Return, then it flows only the small quantity of fluid returned from a descending cylinder. And the large volume continually circulating through the open-center plumbing returns to the sump through the 3-point valve same as before a loader valve was installed. So the new filler hole return fitting doesn't need to flow a large volume and even if it were restrictive, the only consequence could be slow descent of the loader bucket, not a pressure overload somewhere. I think this quantity of fluid going in that Tank Return fitting is trivial compared to the 5 gpm running continually through the main circuit.
    The only thing I want to mention California is we will have between 2 and 4 cyls dumping thru the return instead of a single cylinder in the P/S kit from Hoye and that was why I said what I said. 5 gpm is quite a lot it would be difficult to get that thru a 3/8 hose and a 90 I think but JJ and some others would know I am an amateur at this just using my quirked logic I guess? :0
    Yanmar YM3810D, LT duty 3pt hoe, 6' KK2 tiller, 6' KK box blade, 6 1/2' KK disc, 5' Howse bush hog, 5' Howse back blade, 9" Yellow PHD, 3 Husky chain saws 346XP NE, 359, 372XP. 07 HD Heritage Softail, Crack injectors, check compression, take 2 beers and call me. "Hey you didn't build that."

  5. #25
    Super Star Member J_J's Avatar
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    Sep 2003
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    16,874
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    JACKSONVILLE, FL
    Tractor
    Power-Trac 1445, KUBOTA B-9200HST

    Default Re: Power Beyond vs Series for loader valve?

    3/8 in ID hose will handle 5 GPM.

    Interactive Nomogram for Sizing Hydraulic Hoses

    Grab the yellow dot and pull it to the 5 GPM mark, and you will see that the 3/8 in hose would be sufficient .
    Last edited by J_J; 01-30-2013 at 09:41 PM.
    J.J.

    When I works, I works hard. When I sits and thinks, I goes to sleep.

    Git er done.

  6. #26
    Veteran Member deepNdirt's Avatar
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    Nth East Ga, USA
    Tractor
    yanmar YM-1700

    Default Re: Power Beyond vs Series for loader valve?

    Quote Originally Posted by Neat 1500 View Post
    My return to tank is an extension piece that screws into the trans fill plug hole in which the cap then screws on top of the extension then it has a threaded hole for the hydraulic hose to go in. i have even drilled another hole in the side if it, tapped it and added a filter for a breather which has reduced my oil blow out around the gear shifter.

    Hey Neat, have you any pix of this adapter? I would be interested in using this setup, when I installed my FEL I wound up having to use 2 pc's to convert the dipstick hole in order to connect the dump/return line, then of course eliminating the dipstick and now having no way to check the hydraulic level, also becomes a hassle when trying to " quickly " remove the FEL the line being threaded in and compression fitted ... each of the 2 times I have removed the FEL I wound up having to instal a new Ferrel ring to keep it from leaking, and is another reason I just leave the FEL on all the time, in fact if there were a way to instal a QD onto the dump port without restricting the flow I would consider doing this as well, which brings me moving ahead into this thread where I read that the size of the return line is under question, Back when I installed the FEL I was doing trial fit of the lines etc,etc, I removed the dipstick and simply held the elbow fitting over the hole so I could observe the flow rate/amount of pressure that might be in this 3/8 line, I noted that even though was not under high pressure it did have enough to spurt, after several minutes passed I looked inside the hole and notice the fluid was foam, I knew it was not due to windage from gears turning because the tractor had not been moved, though i'm not sure if foaming has any significant effect to the hydraulic sytem, But thinking I had read about it somewhere, I would say that if using a larger line would lessen the cause of foaming, right! although not all together sure because I never tried a larger line,
    Never judge a man until you've walked a day in his shoes,

  7. #27
    Elite Member
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    Dec 2009
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    2,666
    Location
    gilmer tx
    Tractor
    yanmar 2002d

    Default Re: Power Beyond vs Series for loader valve?

    I am attaching some pictures of my "Akon" loader valve on my vn Bulldog loader. (Made in Turkey) Hopeful JJ or somebody can identify if I have a power beyond port. All the six used ports are facing the camera. The used bottom port is the inlet and that hose is just looping to the top used port with a quick disconnect to keep clean while removed from the tractor. That top port is the discharge and goes on the the 3 point when the loader is installed. One of the two unused ports is just to the right and above the used top port and has a "T" on the housing. The other unused port is directly below the lower used port. There is a "P" on the housing.

    I have done considerable googling and cannot find any information to help me identify anything. I have never had any problems with this setup but ya all (southern term) have convinced me it may not be correct. Any ideas??
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails -100_5870-jpg   -100_5871-jpg   -100_5872-jpg  

  8. #28
    Super Member kenmac's Avatar
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    Feb 2005
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    5,696
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    The Heart of Dixie
    Tractor
    yanmar 3110D

    Default Re: Power Beyond vs Series for loader valve?

    Possibly the bottom plug ? The top plug has a T for tank. If it's the bottom plug,You would have to have a fitting to screw inside to make it pb
    Yanmar 3110D
    07 Dodge 2500 5.9 Cummins
    Husky 372xp
    Husky 55 Rancher
    Maruyama trimmer
    Husky trimmer
    Redmax BP blower
    Toro zero turn
    North Star 4 K PSI pressure washer
    Honda 300 4 trax
    Yamaha Timberwolf
    liquid logic coupe kayak
    16' Tow Master Dump Trailer ,20' Yanmar Hauler

  9. #29
    Super Member kenmac's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2005
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    5,696
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    The Heart of Dixie
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    yanmar 3110D

    Default Re: Power Beyond vs Series for loader valve?

    Quote Originally Posted by deepNdirt View Post
    I removed the dipstick and simply held the elbow fitting over the hole so I could observe the flow rate/amount of pressure that might be in this 3/8 line, I noted that even though was not under high pressure it did have enough to spurt, after several minutes passed I looked inside the hole and notice the fluid was foam, I knew it was not due to windage from gears turning because the tractor had not been moved, though i'm not sure if foaming has any significant effect to the hydraulic sytem, But thinking I had read about it somewhere, I would say that if using a larger line would lessen the cause of foaming, right! although not all together sure because I never tried a larger line,
    I can say that I experenced problems with a 1/2'' return line. Since I have increased the return line to 3/4'' I have experenced no problems.Everyone may not experence problems with smaller return line like, everyone don't experence problems with the loader plumbed in series
    Yanmar 3110D
    07 Dodge 2500 5.9 Cummins
    Husky 372xp
    Husky 55 Rancher
    Maruyama trimmer
    Husky trimmer
    Redmax BP blower
    Toro zero turn
    North Star 4 K PSI pressure washer
    Honda 300 4 trax
    Yamaha Timberwolf
    liquid logic coupe kayak
    16' Tow Master Dump Trailer ,20' Yanmar Hauler

  10. #30
    Elite Member
    Join Date
    Dec 2009
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    gilmer tx
    Tractor
    yanmar 2002d

    Default Re: Power Beyond vs Series for loader valve?

    Quote Originally Posted by kenmac View Post
    Possibly the bottom plug ? The top plug has a T for tank. If it's the bottom plug,You would have to have a fitting to screw inside to make it pb
    Any description on the possible fitting and just what it does?

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