Scotty Dive
Veteran Member
Let me apologize for this long thread but hope it will help many of us Yanmar owners out there who have or are planning on installing Power Beyond or Power Steering or a combination of both. However we are looking for feedback from any members who understand this stuff better than we do.
A little Background, I have an YM2020D with a V-Tek loader. My original loader valve did not have power beyond and the loader valve out port fed to the 3pt. This set up is very common on all of our loaders but there have been threads stating it is incorrect. My loader was responsive both upwards and downwards. Also, it raised with strength at low idle. 3 PT worked as it should. No issues at all.
Last fall, I installed the Hoye/Fredrick's Power steering kit and at the same time, I replaced my loader valve on my V-Tek loader. I installed a Brand Loader valve with power beyond and float.
Here is the diagram of how the hydraulics are hooked up with the new power steering and loader valve.
This was done according to the Hoye instructions except for the fact that instead of my loader out port going to 3pt (as it was originally) it now goes to the sump and the loader valve power beyond fed the 3pt. In the Hoye/Fredrick's Power Steering system is a FCR-51. The FCR is a Flow Control block allowing adjustment of flow to the power steering cylinder and the loader valve.
It is clear that since the Power steering is first in the flow that it takes priority and works well, however the adjustment in the FCR is very sensitive and you need to strike a balance between power steering and loader functionality. An adjustment a little one way or the other stops one of the systems from working correctly. I adjusted the FCR to a point where the power steering just barely works as it should. This setting is a 2.5 on a scale of 1-10. I believe this means, 25% of the flow goes to the PS and the 75% remaining goes to the Loader Valve in this set up. For example, adjusting the FCR to a setting of 3 and higher and you lose all loader functionality regardless of rpm and anything below 2.5 you lose all PS and the loader works at all rpms. At the 2.5 setting and at full rpm, I have both power steering and loader valve functionality. However, the loader response is slower and I lost all loader functionality at low idle where I had it before. I then upgraded to a 9cc pump (per the recommendation of Hoye) over the stock 7cc pump. With the new larger cc pump the loader hydraulics were quicker in response but still nonexistent at low idle. Another serious issue experienced was the loader dropped very quickly and violently when a heavy load was in the bucket. It makes finessing a load downward a delicate operation and risks damaging what is in or attached to the bucket and the platform you are dropping it onto. Before Power Steering and the new loader valve this was not an issue.
Now on to my partner in crime; Jtullis13, who has a Yanmar 2210D with a Koyker 120 loader and I have collaborated via PM and on the phone. This all started because he was installing the Hoye PS kit and I offered to lend my experience from installing the PS kit. Based on my shared experiences and what he experienced with his install, he began making a series of configuration changes to the hydraulic routing with varying results. After multiple changes, what he ended up doing is interesting and created a solution that is about 95% perfect. As he made port and flow adjustments certain results were experienced, like the 3pt not working when the loader was being used and the Power steering stopping when raising the boom arms and so on.
What he ended up with is this (his flow diagram is below). Instead of having the flow go to the FCR first per the Hoye Instruction, it flows to the loader Valve IN port. The loader valve power beyond AND the out port connect to a 1/2" Y valve (Purchased off EBay and rated for 10K psi) and the out port of the Y valve feeds the IN Port on the FCR. Let's discuss this logic here. We believe the flow to the loader valve (when the Joy Stick is in neutral (and not being use to tilt or raise/lower) flows through to the Power Beyond. When the Loader valve is being used the excess flow from the cylinders travels out the valve OUT port. By connecting these two independent streams they flow into one stream and provide fluid and pressure to the FCR at almost 100% flow. He set his FCR flow control valve at 7.5. The EX (Excess) port on the Flow Control valve returns to the Tank. The CF port feeds the IN port of the Power Steering. So 75% of flow goes to Power Steering and the 25% excess flow to the tank. Power Steering Out Port feeds the 3 PT. 3PT flows to the Tank.
Now, back to my YM2020D with Power beyond feeding the 3pt, we believe there is no back pressure (like there was when it flowed out through the Loader Valve OUT port to the 3PT) and is why I see the violent dropping of the loader when carry a heavy load. Jtullis13 also experienced this when using Power Beyond supplying the 3PT, but he has eliminated that because his system has some back pressure (we are guessing here) and therefore has much better loader control when lowering heavy loads.
Jtullis13's results are these: He has full use of the loader at all times and rpms. Lowering the boom or bucket with a load is controlled. Power steering works perfectly except he loses partial power steering when lifting the loader (makes sense to me because flow needed to fill cylinders) AND using power Steering. His 3 Pt works and has lifted upwards of 1000 lbs. with it. No whining at the pump. He plans on adding a gauge to his system which I am sure he will share his results if there is anything odd going on. I have one in my system and that's how I found out I was having spikes upwards of 5000 psi when the loader and 3pt were used at the same time. An adjustment of the 3pt fixed that.
So, Jtullis13's results are terrific and I am seriously considering making these changes but a bit hesitant because of my limited experience with hydraulics and not wanting to blow a pump out or worse. We both realize that not having Power Steering first in the hydraulic flow is a No No when it comes to cars, but we are not concerned about losing power steering in the case of a hydraulic power loss. At that moment we have more pressing issues to consider. Plus the steering will still work manually. The question is - is there something glaring that comes to mind that may cause issues with a set up like this?
A little Background, I have an YM2020D with a V-Tek loader. My original loader valve did not have power beyond and the loader valve out port fed to the 3pt. This set up is very common on all of our loaders but there have been threads stating it is incorrect. My loader was responsive both upwards and downwards. Also, it raised with strength at low idle. 3 PT worked as it should. No issues at all.
Last fall, I installed the Hoye/Fredrick's Power steering kit and at the same time, I replaced my loader valve on my V-Tek loader. I installed a Brand Loader valve with power beyond and float.
Here is the diagram of how the hydraulics are hooked up with the new power steering and loader valve.
This was done according to the Hoye instructions except for the fact that instead of my loader out port going to 3pt (as it was originally) it now goes to the sump and the loader valve power beyond fed the 3pt. In the Hoye/Fredrick's Power Steering system is a FCR-51. The FCR is a Flow Control block allowing adjustment of flow to the power steering cylinder and the loader valve.
It is clear that since the Power steering is first in the flow that it takes priority and works well, however the adjustment in the FCR is very sensitive and you need to strike a balance between power steering and loader functionality. An adjustment a little one way or the other stops one of the systems from working correctly. I adjusted the FCR to a point where the power steering just barely works as it should. This setting is a 2.5 on a scale of 1-10. I believe this means, 25% of the flow goes to the PS and the 75% remaining goes to the Loader Valve in this set up. For example, adjusting the FCR to a setting of 3 and higher and you lose all loader functionality regardless of rpm and anything below 2.5 you lose all PS and the loader works at all rpms. At the 2.5 setting and at full rpm, I have both power steering and loader valve functionality. However, the loader response is slower and I lost all loader functionality at low idle where I had it before. I then upgraded to a 9cc pump (per the recommendation of Hoye) over the stock 7cc pump. With the new larger cc pump the loader hydraulics were quicker in response but still nonexistent at low idle. Another serious issue experienced was the loader dropped very quickly and violently when a heavy load was in the bucket. It makes finessing a load downward a delicate operation and risks damaging what is in or attached to the bucket and the platform you are dropping it onto. Before Power Steering and the new loader valve this was not an issue.
Now on to my partner in crime; Jtullis13, who has a Yanmar 2210D with a Koyker 120 loader and I have collaborated via PM and on the phone. This all started because he was installing the Hoye PS kit and I offered to lend my experience from installing the PS kit. Based on my shared experiences and what he experienced with his install, he began making a series of configuration changes to the hydraulic routing with varying results. After multiple changes, what he ended up doing is interesting and created a solution that is about 95% perfect. As he made port and flow adjustments certain results were experienced, like the 3pt not working when the loader was being used and the Power steering stopping when raising the boom arms and so on.
What he ended up with is this (his flow diagram is below). Instead of having the flow go to the FCR first per the Hoye Instruction, it flows to the loader Valve IN port. The loader valve power beyond AND the out port connect to a 1/2" Y valve (Purchased off EBay and rated for 10K psi) and the out port of the Y valve feeds the IN Port on the FCR. Let's discuss this logic here. We believe the flow to the loader valve (when the Joy Stick is in neutral (and not being use to tilt or raise/lower) flows through to the Power Beyond. When the Loader valve is being used the excess flow from the cylinders travels out the valve OUT port. By connecting these two independent streams they flow into one stream and provide fluid and pressure to the FCR at almost 100% flow. He set his FCR flow control valve at 7.5. The EX (Excess) port on the Flow Control valve returns to the Tank. The CF port feeds the IN port of the Power Steering. So 75% of flow goes to Power Steering and the 25% excess flow to the tank. Power Steering Out Port feeds the 3 PT. 3PT flows to the Tank.
Now, back to my YM2020D with Power beyond feeding the 3pt, we believe there is no back pressure (like there was when it flowed out through the Loader Valve OUT port to the 3PT) and is why I see the violent dropping of the loader when carry a heavy load. Jtullis13 also experienced this when using Power Beyond supplying the 3PT, but he has eliminated that because his system has some back pressure (we are guessing here) and therefore has much better loader control when lowering heavy loads.
Jtullis13's results are these: He has full use of the loader at all times and rpms. Lowering the boom or bucket with a load is controlled. Power steering works perfectly except he loses partial power steering when lifting the loader (makes sense to me because flow needed to fill cylinders) AND using power Steering. His 3 Pt works and has lifted upwards of 1000 lbs. with it. No whining at the pump. He plans on adding a gauge to his system which I am sure he will share his results if there is anything odd going on. I have one in my system and that's how I found out I was having spikes upwards of 5000 psi when the loader and 3pt were used at the same time. An adjustment of the 3pt fixed that.
So, Jtullis13's results are terrific and I am seriously considering making these changes but a bit hesitant because of my limited experience with hydraulics and not wanting to blow a pump out or worse. We both realize that not having Power Steering first in the hydraulic flow is a No No when it comes to cars, but we are not concerned about losing power steering in the case of a hydraulic power loss. At that moment we have more pressing issues to consider. Plus the steering will still work manually. The question is - is there something glaring that comes to mind that may cause issues with a set up like this?
