Radiator Repair Question

[coosa]

Today was one of those days when Murphy's Law took over for me - anything that could go wrong did go wrong. I had some more road work I wanted to do before it starts back raining tomorrow, but the little 2210DB was due for my first oil change. I already had a filter, so I went to town and bought oil and anti-freeze and then warmed the tractor up and parked it in a level place. I drained the oil and removed the side panel and got the oil filter to loose right up easily and thought it would be about a 30 minute job to change oil and anti-freeze. It was not to be so.

There is a bracket that holds what I assume is a thermostat that is in front of the filter. There is a cutout on it for the filer, and I thought the filter would drop out once it cleared all the threads. It looks like this:



Except when I loosened it as far as I could, it hit the bracket and would not go any further. Surely you ain't gotta remove the bracket to change an oil filter? I refused to believe that any engineer in the world would design it that way when it would be so easy to leave room to get the filter out. 30 minutes later I gave up and decided it must have been designed so that the bracket had to be removed. I thought at first that maybe just the top part of it that holds a hose in place had to be removed, so I removed it and got the filter clear of the threads. But there was no way for it to drop out of there; the big part of the bracket had to go to. I could see that the radiator outlet that hose attached to look very flimsy, and I so wanted to avoid messing with it. I first tried to just loosen the bracket and see if that would work; it didn't. The bracket had to come completely off to get the filter out. And if I didn't want to take all those hoses loose, I knew I had better be careful and hold the bracket steady with one hand and carefully get the filter out with the other. I tried, I really tried, but this was the result.


Maybe it was a blessing in disguise; I made sure not to put any pressure on that thing and it broke loose anyway. I guess it was on the verge of letting go and was gonna happen sometime, so better to break off in my yard that on the backside of the hunting club by myself. Or maybe it was just a day when everything was gonna go wrong no matter what I did. I pulled the bucket with the used oil out from under the tractor and moved it to the side so I could eventually funnel it into an oil container and carry it to the recycling center. As I was carrying it, the bottom of the bucket shattered from old age and used oil went everywhere. It had now gotten to the point of being funny.

I'd had enough mechanic work for one day, so I put it back together and put the tractor back under the shed. Here is a closeup view of where the outlet leaves the radiator; I just shoved it back in there for now:



You can see the rust is already coming thru on the radiator, a year after Fredricks restored the tractor. I'm suspecting this thing had broke off and been repaired before. I wonder if you guys can tell me my options here? Is there anything I can do short of pulling the radiator and carrying it to a shop to be soldered? The outlet piece fits in closely, so I've wondered if its worth trying some of the high temp rated JB Weld? That would sure be a lot easier than pulling it off.

Whatever I do, I am gonna pull that bracket and redesign it so that I can get the oil filter out without removing any brackets. All it looks like it needs is to relocate a bolt and cut the slot a little wider. I can't believe they didn't design it that way in the first place. Are all models like this? I kinda doubt it; I'm suspecting this is unique to my model. The B means they changed some things during the model year and the side plates were one of the changes. I'm guessing the new side plates required some changes in design that they hadn't really fully thought about before implementing. Or are all of them like this?

Thanks for any help.

 

[winston1]

I would recommend radiator shop having a look and making recommendation. Maybe a good cleaning in order too? My old 2002D had a similiar side shield that had to be removed to change the filter.

 

[coosa]

Thanks Winston, I was afraid everyone was gonna tell me that. I'm sure it would be best, but that outlet barb sticks into the radiator 1/4" or more and is a relatively tight fit. I keep thinking if I just clean the outside of the radiator really well, then insert the barb and JB Weld the outside that there is a chance it holds. I wouldn't have much to lose; I'll be keeping the tractor around the house the next few months, so if it breaks loose I can always get it back under the shed and pull the radiator then. But no point in trying that if everyone thinks it will fail.

I just checked my documents from Fredricks and they say they replaced the radiator last summer. I'm not sure if that means a new one or a used one. Are brand new ones even available?

Can anyone tell me the purpose of that small radiator line? Is that some kind of thermostat that it is connected to? If it is, I don't understand how it works.

 

[California]

The small line from the radiator, and another from the block, go to the drain valve that will empty both, to protect both from freezing. These have some Old School holdovers, the manual for YM240 (same age) mentions ditch water isn't the best choice for refilling it in the spring after draining it for the winter. Also describes running with no battery at all, and a few other features to serve what some real old geezers expected back in the day.

I thought of a couple more Old School features from the 70's Yanmar Manual:

Scrape out the injectors using only mutton tallow on a wooden stick. (yes really!)

Change the oil filter every 3 or so oil changes, more often if operating in dust. (Rice paddies don't have dust).

Fuel to have no more than a tablespoon (approximately) of debris and water per tankful. If more, keep an eye on the fuel filter.

There are probably a few more features from a bygone era but that double radiator/engine drain is one that's still useful.

 

[coosa]

That's very interesting info, California. It reminds me of our days working with an International H that had such a rotten radiator there was no way it would hold water even an hour. We kept jugs and jugs of water in the truck and were constantly adding water to keep it running, and lots of it came right out of the pond. I truly hated that tractor. When my dad passed away, one of the first things I did was to sell it.

But I still don't understand what the gadget connected to the small line from the radiator does. It can be seen clearly in my middle pic, at the very bottom and in the center. The bracket is upside down so you are seeing what is in the inner side of it. You can see that it connects to the small line from the radiator and another line that goes to the block, but it sure doesn't look like a drain valve. It would make sense for a drain valve to be there, but I see no way to use it for that function unless you just disconnect the lines from it.

If that is the purpose of the thing, would there be any harm in bypassing it? I can rig up something easier to use than that, and also fix it so I can get to the oil filter.

All this trouble, and all I was trying to do was to change the oil.

 

[California]

I'm not familiar with that drain fitting. Hey Winston!

Here's one similar to what's on my YM186D.

DRAIN COCK (3 WAY) ASSBY_: Yanmar Tractor Parts

In your photo of the bracket in mounted position, I think I see the same drain plug visible on the exterior of the bracket.


Seems to me a simple tube from the radiator to the block would preserve the precise cooling characteristics while making it easier to change the filter.

 

[coosa]

I'm not familiar with that drain fitting. Hey Winston!

Here's one similar to what's on my YM186D.

DRAIN COCK (3 WAY) ASSBY_: Yanmar Tractor Parts

Seems to me a simple tube from the radiator to the block would preserve the precise cooling characteristics while making it easier to change the filter.

That's exactly what I've been thinking. The more I look at it, I believe it is a drain fitting and the way to use it is to disconnect either line going to it. I can't see any other purpose for it. So I will run a line from the radiator to the block and just take it loose from the block when I want to drain the system. Lower the end of the line below the radiator and it should drain it completely. Then I can take both of the brackets off and throw them away and leave it open around the oil filter.

It won't be left exposed; the side panel will still cover everything. It looks like Fredricks would have done away with this thing when they rebuilt it. I had seen the drain valve pictured above that Hoye sells and expected mine to have something like that. I haven't removed the other side panel yet and have never really looked at the bottom of the radiator, but I'll do that tomorrow. I'm leaning toward trying the JB Weld and seeing how if it will hold. I already have some and it won't take long to fix it, so the only thing I'm really risking is the anti-freeze. I'll post how it goes if I tackle the job. Thanks for the comments.

 

[California]

Oops I added a line to my post apparently after you responded:

++++++++++++++
In your photo of the bracket in mounted position, I think I see the same drain plug visible on the exterior of the bracket.
++++++++++++++

Slight chance Fredricks would still warranty that, if the fitting pulled out that easily. Why not call them before repairing it.

 

[winston1]

Year old radiator sure shouldn't need cleaning. Does it appear the fittings was soldered in? If so, the hardest thing about the repair would be clean up. Wouldn't doubt taking the radiator out would be the right move in order to do it right. However, maybe your JB weld will work.

Side note. Yes, new radiators are made, but they are after market and in my opinion not always as good as the originals.

 

[coosa]

California - yes, if that sentence was in there before I skipped right over it. I don't see what you are talking about, but it could be there. If it is, then what is the gadget I've been asking about? It looks to do nothing but serve as place to join the 2 lines, and the only possible reason I can think of is to be the place to disconnect the lines to drain them. That would keep the user from having to pull the line from the weak barb on the radiator. I thought at first it must be some type of thermostat that blocks water until it gets hot, but that was probably a bad guess.

After sleeping on it, I'm gonna take Winston's advice and pull the radiator. I don't think the shop will charge much to fix it; its just a job I would rather avoid. All this happened trying to change the oil; no telling what will go wrong trying to pull a radiator. It's been several years since I had to pull one, and nothing was easy about it on the JD.

Thanks for all the help.