How is this not robbery?

[whiskywizard]

I found it an interesting discussion. Sure, there was disagreement, but there were some good points raised for a few different viewpoints.

 

[beppington]

I found it an interesting discussion. Sure, there was disagreement, but there were some good points raised for a few different viewpoints.

Yeah, I don't think we all to have agree in order to discuss something. Actually, what's the point of discussing something if we all agree? :laughing: (other than just factual question & answer)

 

[Duffster]

I had ask that this thread be shut down, but no one honored my request.

Where are the moderators.

If you don't like the heat stay out of the kitchen. :laughing:

 

[Bird]

I had ask that this thread be shut down, but no one honored my request.

Where are the moderators.

J J, I think it's been an interesting discussion and my first opinion was that you agreed to a price, so you had no complaint. However, others in the business have indicated that the flat rate book did NOT call for 3 hours, so it does appear that you were, or at least may have been, cheated. Although $45 a hour is an unheard of low price in this day and age.

As for closing the thread . . . I don't see any violation of rules that would necessitate closing it. However, I am a moderator and I did not close it simply because I participated in the discussion. I've told the other moderators to feel free to close it and/or remove any of my posts if they think I, or anyone else, got out of line.

If you still think it should be closed, click on the little red triangle in the lower left corner of this, or any other post, and type that request. That will send a message to each and every one of the moderators to see what action they deem advisable.

 

[Redbug]

Well, I have to commend J J for his values and sticking up for what he believes. I have enjoyed this thread and the different opinions, (even though I did not agree with many of them). Stick to your guns, J J!!

 

[MFRED]

I kinda enjoyed reading this, I think it would be a shame to see it closed.

I enjoy reading different views on a subject and sometimes it makes me rethink my own view. (though mine is always right)

J J has a valid point with the justification of the price by the use of 3 hours labor. I think more communication between the repair facility would have clarified this. They shouldn't have used 3 hours as justification, just set a price & let the customer decide if the service is worth the price.

Hourly charge, to me, doesn't mean as much as the end cost. Just the fact that the service provided equaled the amount paid.

I don't see how a tech beating flat rate & the shop making money is any worse than some of the other occupations that inflate pricing & try to justify it.

I've never had a free visit at the dentist, doctor or lawyer because something wasn't done right the first time.

 

[Short Game]

I only read the first two and the last two pages of this thread. I am thankful I can do many repairs myself. I freak out when there is a computer chip in the thing somewhere, or say the first step to fix a leaking heater core is, "remove steering wheel," and then comes the dashboard. I can barely work on my '98 Honda. Like a friend of mine says, "I can handle costs, but I can't take overhead." My late Wobbly friend used to say, "in America (that goes for just about anywhere now), things are made to be sold, and once they've done that, they've served their purpose." Now we can add service and repair to that. I once worked with a guy who, as a joke, had cards printed up, "Carpenters from H*ll, shut up, give us your money, we're doing this our way." Mostly though, if I can't fix something myself, I can't afford to have it. It's scary, but it's the way it is for me.

It comes down to the fact that the customer usually must take what he or she gets, and the seller/servicer believes there is a constitutional right to a profit on investment (and have legislators who are not adverse to that assumption).

 

[J_J]

I started this thread, with my observations about the situation. It also seems like I should say whether it should stop, because although most have already commented what they think, and some wanted to argue about just anything, and tell other people that they were wrong and to say , well you agreed to the estimate. I really had no way to know how true it was. Is there a fair playing field, I don't know, but there should be.

DON'T ANYBODY TELL ME THE ESTIMATE IS A TRUE ESTIMATE OF LABOR, TIME, AND PARTS.

I think we all know how the process works, you need it they fix it, and you pay.

I just don't like the math they used or anybody method to deceive.

I have paid for many things I needed fixing, and sometimes I had to mediate the price based on certain facts and what was accomplished on the job. Sometimes I got the price reduced, but most times I paid, because they used the book as though the hours and prices were written in stone.

One does not always know that they are being cheated or ripped off. You find out later that everything you wanted done and paid for, was not done.

I understand people have to make a living, but fairly, and not take advantage of the unknowing.

The parts price range went from $46 to $120. That is if I purchased them. No telling what they shop cost was if purchased through a vender.

I hope some can learn from all this, and only place your trust in those you know, and suspect all others. Always try and pay by credit card . I think you know why.

[ JJ, I replaced the wiper motor, and it only took me about 1 hour, so I am only going charge you the parts cost plus 1 hour of labor. ] I can dream, can't I.

 

[Short Game]

Years ago, as I was just another hippie struggling from job to job (you remember the Nixon and Ford days, don't you?), I started doing freelance mechanic type work for $7/hr. I got so many jobs redoing other mechanics' work, seeing that parts customers bought were not in there when I got inside. It was evident people were sometimes being cheated. I've always been honest to a fault. After a year or so of doing this kind of work, with just my tools and no shop, I got so worried that I would screw up a job, and the screw-up would cost more than I would make on ten jobs. I was losing sleep. Though I never did make that costly mistake, I quit doing that kind of work. Then I started sleeping better again. Now my friends bring me their rigs and I fix them for nothing if it's within my capability. I just like to help people. Somehow, I think I got off on the wrong planet.

Some of the pros have a type of insurance against costly screw-ups: they just lie. I've noticed that some doctors and lawyers use that same system. It's called, "CYA." If I find someone who proves to be honest, they are almost an instant friend, from my point of view.

 

[Qapla]

Tell us how would you level the playing field pray tell?????

OK. Let's look at it from a "level" playing field. Something that is fair for both parties.

When you take the vehicle into the shop they diagnose the problem. Some shops charge for this, some do not. Their choice. If you don't want to pay for the diagnostics, take it to a shop that does not charge or one that
"credits" the diagnostic charge when the work is done.

After the problem has been diagnosed, that is where this situation comes into play (the "flat rate" as opposed to anything else).

Let the shop use the book. Look up the job and give the quote. However, isn't this called an "ESTIMATE"?

Do the job. If it takes far less time then the book says, like taking only 1 hour to do a "book" time of 3 hours, then charge accordingly. Just because you gave a quote for an "estimated" price does not mean you HAVE to charge that.

You could charge less, since you took way less time.

Now, for those times when it takes longer, there is already something in place for that (at least there is here). On all the estimates I have gotten (or seen, it is required here by law) there is a statement that says they can exceed the estimate by XXX dollars if needed without having to contact you before they do the repair. However, it is going to cost above the increased amount, they have to contact you before they continue to either get your permission or stop the work.

This seems like a no brainer ... it is much more fair for both sides.

BTW - No, I do not turn wrenches for a living. However, I have worked as a self-employed person since the early 1970's. I have done several different types of work over the years and most of them have been the type where I have to give "estimates". I do not use a "book" for the price, but I do have to use formulas or experience for the estimates.

When I find that a job is easier then I thought, I do charge less. This makes the customer very happy and I feel better, too. It also gets me more referral business. Word-of-mouth is so important.