How is this not robbery?

[LD1]

When I find that a job is easier then I thought, I do charge less. This makes the customer very happy and I feel better, too. It also gets me more referral business. Word-of-mouth is so important.

But when a job takes longer than expected, what does the customer think about that?

Or what about when you charge that XXXX dollar amount allowed over without contacting them? Say, you quoted $100 and charged them $120?

 

[Deere Dude]

But when a job takes longer than expected, what does the customer think about that?

Or what about when you charge that XXXX dollar amount allowed over without contacting them? Say, you quoted $100 and charged them $120?

That's easy. If it takes you longer and you want to charge him more, just throw a little water on your face and a little dirt on the sleeve before he comes in and complain about how tough it was :laughing:
If you want to charge him more, it's not a good idea to get done in a third of the time.

 

[J_J]

Whatever the rules are for exceeding the time would apply such as if 10 % over, call the customer, and if in some states, if $50 more than the estimate, call the customer.

Here is the kicker, and that is how many people/shops want to get paid less than the estimate, even if it is wrong.

You have to ask yourself, how much honest is honest.

Does anyone ever recompute the bill for the estimate they gave?

Seems like it is always gravy for the shop, and none for the customer.

I think all customers would like an honest estimate, but we don't always know when we are getting one.

I think anyone that knows the shop labor rate, and and the quoted time to fix, plus parts would know a little something, so in my case, if the shop did in fact get $90 per hour, and quoted me a 3 hour change out for the wiper, It doesn't even sound right, and I question the time, and he said that is what the book said. That $90 shop time for the job would be way out of line $90 times 3, plus the part, could have been $75 if obtained from a dealer.

Again, how honest is honest, or is it best estimate.

Is there any reason that if the estimate can go over the estimate, that the estimate can be less, and therefore a lesser amount that quoted, with the result that the customer will pay less than the original estimated quote.

Do any of you pay for guess work verses actual work?

I have always assumed the book was used as a reference, but not necessarily correct and final.

We all want justice.

 

[LD1]

If you want to charge him more, it's not a good idea to get done in a third of the time.

:confused2::confused2::confused2::confused2:

My post was in response to qapla solution to "level the playing field"

I am talking about how to go about charging more (when it takes MORE than book time) and NOT having an upset customer, NOT just charging more in general.

It all comes down to basics. If a customer comes into the shop for a repair, and you dont give him a quote, only tell him I charge XX per hour and I will bill you for however long it takes, 99% of them are going to ask "how long do you think it will take?"

That is why "book-time" is a very usefull tool vs the later. Because it allows ALL shops across the country to charge the same hours per job. (or are at least supposed to).

The following are the MAJOR benefits of book time:

1. Keeps ALL shops on a level playing field with eachother. If you price a repair at several different facilities, the ONLY difference should be in labor rate. $75-120/hr is about the norm.

2. Gives the ability to give the customer a solid qoute of XX price to do job YY. Regardless of time involved. Just a flat price for the job at hand.

3. Allows the better techs to make more than the not-so-good techs.

The following are some problems in a system without book time, and only an hourly rate they charge for ACTUAL hours:

1. Customer will accuse you of taking your time and milking the clock. If you try to be timley, they will say you rushed it.

2. Cannont give a customer a firm quote. Imagine you are a shop owner with two employees. One is great, the other is slower. A customer calls for a quote. The better guy can do the job in 2hrs, the slower guy takes 3hrs. How do you quote the job? Is it fair that the customer that gets the slower-not-as-good tech has to pay more than the other guy that gets luckey to get the good tech??

3. Is if fair that the better tech gets paid less to install the same part as the slower guy?

4. As a business owner, how do you pay your employees so that they remail productive, instead of "milking" their time.

5. In general, in a system like this, there is NO incentive for either the tech OR shop owner to be efficent and productive. What about a slow day, with only a few jobs. Normally may only take 3 hours. Hey' why not milk them out all day??

Bottom line, IMO, book-time is the fairest way for ALL parties involved. The customer should not even be informed of what the "book time" is. All it is, is a way for the dealer to quote a price for the job at hand.

But what brought this all about was the fact that the shop fudged up the book time by double. Maybe that explains their 1/2 priced labor rate??? Maybe not. But If they had told JJ book-time was 1.5hrs, and they finished in ~1 hr and for the agreed upon price, I dont think this thread would have even been started. But that is just IMHO.

 

[LD1]

Is there any reason that if the estimate can go over the estimate, that the estimate can be less, and therefore a lesser amount that quoted, with the result that the customer will pay less than the original estimated quote.

Simple answer to that is, it doesnt happen at ANY of the shops I have dealt with, or known people who work at.

The ONLY reason an estimate goes up around here, is because there was something else wrong, in ADDITION to what was quoted.

For example, you are qouted a price to replace a PS pump because it is bad. While they are working on it, they discover that the rack and tierod ends are also bad. They call you, explain to you, you agree, price goes up. Because there is more parts and labor involved.

BUT, if they ONLY replace the PS pump, and all worst case scenerios happen, broken bolts, seized, etc, even if they go over on hrs, they still only charge the quoted price in the beginning.

That is why some take less than book time, and they dont charge less. Because when they go over, they dont charge more.

At least that is the case around here. I cant speak for all shops though.

 

[Short Game]

It seems I can remember at least one national chain of auto service establishments getting caught by investigative journalists (remember investigative journalists?) for systematically cheating customers. It was a major transmission repair company, and the reporters disconnected a vacuum line to their automatic transmission and drove to one shop after another. At every shop, the diagnosis was a rebuild was needed. They tried one corner gas station where the attendant looked under the car and reached in and slipped the hose back on and sent them on their way, no charge.

I guess it always comes down to caveat emptor, let the buyer beware.

Hamilton, W.H. "The Ancient Maxim Caveat Emptor" (1931) 40 Yale Law Journal 1133, argues that caveat emptor never had any place in Roman law, civil law, or lex mercatoria and was probably a mistake when implemented into the common law. Rather, there was a duty of good faith.

It would be nice, eh?

 

[whiskywizard]

Sometimes, the shop installs that new widget - in this case it's a wiper motor - and the widget dies in a week.

The supplier of the widget stands behind the failed product and offers a replacement. But, the widget supplier doesn't pay for another round of Re&Re. He only comes good for the replacement parts.

And the average customer has trouble accepting further expense for a fix that in his mind is already complete. So who pays?

The cost for the repeat Re&Re gets covered by the installer. To survive, he has to build some cushion into the original charge to cover himself, no?

 

[FredH]

JJ : As per My first post , I know what you are talking about thus the shop I go to is the one I go to . WHY ? For the same reason's you are stating . I have several shop's here in this area to choose from , but the one I go with has treated me right from the start over these last 12 years . Although they give rough estimates on time , They always over estimate , then when the job is done they have the actual time . As per my first post they use a time clock for each work order .

I have had several repairs were they took longer than estimated , BUT only charged me what they initially estimated . These repairs included replacing my truck radiator which every attachment clip was so corroded that they ended up breaking every one and replaced . Instead of charging actual time which was like 7.25 hours , they charge their estimate of 5 hours and sold me the 16 new attachment clips for their cost rather than retail .

I am having EGR sensor problems on my semi , Three times now they have hooked up the computer and ran error codes for free . Yesterday the mechanic who rebuilt my engine , rummaged through his toolbox and gave my wife a $ 50 barometric sensor for free rather than have her buy a different sensor that he did not think was the problem .

Compare that to a service facility down south that replaced a brake canister . 1.5 hours labor and he spent most of his time doing nothing or walking back and forth between truck and toolbox . But on the road , so I was stuck , they just will not get my business again .

Fred H.

 

[brin]

Whatever the rules are for exceeding the time would apply such as if 10 % over, call the customer, and if in some states, if $50 more than the estimate, call the customer.

Here is the kicker, and that is how many people want to get paid less than the estimate, even if it is wrong.

You have to ask yourself, how much honest is honest.

Does anyone ever recompute the bill for the estimate they gave?

Seems like it is always gravy for the shop, and none for the customer.

I think all customers would like an honest estimate, but we don't always know when we are getting one.

I think anyone that knows the shop labor rate, and and the quoted time to fix, plus parts would know a little something, so in my case, if the shop did in fact get $90 per hour, and quoted me a 3 hour change out for the wiper, It doesn't even sound right, and I question the time, and he said that is what the book said. That $90 shop time for the job would be way out of line $90 times 3, plus the part, could have been $75 if obtained from a dealer.

Again, how honest is honest, or is it best estimate.

Is there any reason that if the estimate can go over the estimate, that the estimate can be less, and therefore a lesser amount that quoted, with the result that the customer will pay less than the original estimated quote.

Do any of you pay for guess work verses actual work?

I have always assumed the book was used as a reference, but not necessarily correct and final.

We all want justice.

JJ - I take our vehicles to our local Independently owned Tire and Auto shop for tires and mechanical work and drop them off..They will always call me with an estimate and I will discuss it with them and then they go ahead and as many times as not the charge ends up being sometimes substantially less than they had estimated and they always charge me the lower actual cost ...So they might estimate $300.00 for what they think the problem could be but then they find out it was something much more minor and my actual bill might be $65.00...they are honest folks and I believe that is what you are suggesting and I agree..

 

[Bird]

Here is the kicker, and that is how many people want to get paid less than the estimate, even if it is wrong.

You have to ask yourself, how much honest is honest.

Does anyone ever recompute the bill for the estimate they gave?

Seems like it is always gravy for the shop, and none for the customer.

I think all customers would like an honest estimate, but we don't always know when we are getting one.

That may be true in some cases, but certainly not all. I, personally, never charged a nickel more than the "estimate" but I've sure charged less. I remember one time in 1991, in Anchorage, that I gave a guy a price for doing several things to his pickup. But I was out of the office when he came to get the truck and that night, going through the invoices, I found that that he had been charged $3 more than the price I gave him. Turned out his truck required a different, and slightly more expensive, fan belt than the one I used for my calculations. The guy had not complained at all about the price, but I did call him to tell him we owed him $3.

We did a lot of front end alignments and I gave customers the price in advance, but a few times when we got the vehicle on the alignment machine, we found it really didn't need anything, so no charge.