Thoughts on 4wd types on Crossover/small SUV's

[foggy1111]

I bought a new 2011 Jeep GC Overland in Dec 2010. What originally attracted me was its 7500 lb tow rating for my boat and tractor towing. Its got low range and a locker....and an air-adjustable suspension height.

The biggest limitation is the hiway tread tires furnished by Jeep (on a trail-rated vehicle no less ). Still....it gets me through everywhere I want to go.....and has a very nice ride. :thumbsup:

I've put 25,000 miles on this SUV so far....and it's a keeper. I have the hemi V8...so it's got plenty of grunt....yet I get 18 mpg all-around...and 21 to 23 hiway - depending how fast I drive. Not too bad for a heavy vehicle that can do all I need done.

 

[California]

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All-Wheel Drive | Subaru AWD

from the link

Symmetrical All-Wheel Drive sends power to all wheels simultaneously for maximum traction and acceleration. In slippery conditions, that power instinctively flows to the wheels with the best traction.

That's marketing talk to say its a front wheel drive with some drag in the transmission rear-output clutch so the rear axle is under power too - but not rigidly locked to the front. ('full time AWD'.) If it's similar to the earlier Legacy/Outback with automatic transmission (4EAT) each wheel sensor triggers that rear clutch instantly if it senses a wheel turning faster. When the front-to-rear clutch is engaged, the rear has to turn at the same speed as the front. It's so quick you don't feel it, what you feel is it's nearly impossible to spin a front wheel because it will turn at the proper speed even on glare ice if the rear axle has some traction.

I love my 99 Outback. I've owned two Willys Wagons, two Wagoneers (gotta see that photo, me at age 30 ), an early Trooper (all real 4wd with no center differential), and an AMC Eagle. The Eagle was the only dog, it was RWD with the front coupled through clutches in the transmission like a Subaru except backward. Genius design; terrifying handling at speed.

An old post with a picture where the side of the trail caved in leaving a tire hanging in space. With a few minutes digging, and loading some heavy guests in the trunk to get the back tires back on the ground, I backed the Subaru up the grade and out of trouble. I had put full skidplates under it when I bought it and this was one of the few times where it was sliding over rocks on its belly. (Its farther up that rocky grade in the background beyond the turnaround area shown in the Trooper photo).

Subaru as a farm vehicle:
Bringing home my second tractor. I'm at, but not over, rated weight. No problems in a 200 mile tow.
Harvest. Farm chores. More trucking - I just brought home that 650 gallon tank.

I think Subaru has the best AWD. I love mine.

 

[me0418840987]

Hmm... I live in Wisconsin, and only have 2 4wd vehicles. A 72 Jeep J20 pickup which is a beast to go down into the woods and bring up firewood, and a 63 Willys, which since it's restoration, only sees 4wd in the grass, just to keep everything lubed up good. I did use the willys when my 2wd dodge got stuck on a grade with 4 pallets of shingles on the trailer in a foot of snow- in my driveway-. Put her in 4lo, and walked it up the hill with the dodge in neutral still hooked to the trailer, because there was no one around to help. Have survived with daily driver 2wd vehicles forever- true snow tires are your friend. I LOVE to go out in a fresh snowfall with my 03 Dodge Neon at 2am when no one is out on the road-full set of Hankook Ipike 409 rubber. Was a horrible car in the snow with the stock bad year tires, but drives like a snowmobile with these. 4 inches of ground clearance, but will go thru a foot of fresh powder, as long as there is road at the bottom somewhere. On the way home from work last year, it got me thru some 2 foot drifts, I had to park it in the shed with the kero heater to get her to thaw out- I had snow plowed TIGHT up to the top of the hood, couldn't see the engine. Good little $250.00 car

 

[Egon]

My wife's Subaru Outback has all wheel drive plus traction control. Yes it is all wheel drive!:thumbsup:

My Lexus has all wheel drive, traction control and a lockable center differential.

 

[donn12]

AWD and part time AWD are not really different from a practical 'how will it do in the snow' standpoint. These cars can add power to the rear wheels instantly when slippage is detected. Almost all of these systems are biased towards FWD. This does not apply to high performance applications like a Porsche Carrera 4. A good clue is the base model ie you can buy a RWD Subaru and you can't buy a FWD Porsche. Point being the Porsche will not be near as good in the snow as the Subaru .

Obviously most trucks have 2wd (sucks in snow) or 4wd (great in snow but horrible on dry pavement due to binding). Nicer set ups will have auto so you don't have to switch back and forth.

The next system and biggest mechanical difference is the two speed transfer case with low range. Once a vehicle gets stuck or if it slides off the road this can make a huge difference.

The next step up from this is a full time 4x4 with low range with locking diffs and stability systems that can be defeated or have a snow mode to allow some wheelspin. These are normally only found on high dollar SUVs.

The biggest difference for snow is tires and driver skill.
Most of the above is a bigger deal offroad - especially sand.

 

[California]

Good points. Buying a vehicle for snow isn't the same thing as rock-crawling where one tire doesn't reach the ground.

Low range isn't a big consideration for snow but it's essential for the worst offroad going, say if you need to creep over wastebasket-size boulders. (Or start a heavy trailer uphill). Also as you noted, sand offers tremendous resistance and you need high torque at near-zero speed. In effect you are continually climbing a step as you move forward; at the same time you can't afford to spin and toss all the sand out from under your wheels. (Don't ask me where I learned that ).

After several 4x4's I got that Subaru with AT as the best compromise for my needs. The AT allows a slow gentle start under poor traction or where you don't want to lurch over boulders as you get moving. It's not an equal to the previous rigs, but it's a lot more comfortable on the highway, more economical, and in 12 years use, that place where I took the photo is the only time I've had to dig a little to get moving again.

Incidentally - Subaru hasn't sold any 2wd's for several years.

 

[RoyJackson]

My Lexus has all wheel drive, traction control and a lockable center differential.

You have a Lexus??

Somehow, I can't picture you in a Lexus...a '58 International pickup or Travelall, maybe...but not a Lexus!

 

[aczlan]

Whatever you get, seek out a set of dedicated rims to put snow tires on ($350ish on CL for tires and rims for most cars).
4wd is fine, but without the traction that real snow tires (not all reason tires) give, you will do MUCH better.

I put snows on my RWD Volvo wagon each winter (currently have studded Nokians) and with the limited slip diff, it will go anywhere it can bite on something under the snow.
If I drop the back tires off of the paved laneway in the winter and high center the car, it will stick, but otherwise, it just goes through 6" inches of snow.

Aaron Z

 

[Egon]

Somehow, I can't picture you in a Lexus...a '58 International pickup or Travelall, maybe...but not a Lexus!/QUOTE]

Well, I did have a 51 International P/U once. Did drive International P/U's and travelall's at work in the 60's.

Had some nice Chrysler cars in the 60's. Have a 87 GT Fiero almost since new. V6 & 5 speed

My 96 Dodge diesel extended cab 4x4 should be in the same category as the Internationals.:laughing:

 

[workinallthetime]

Eaton Locking Differential Demonstration - YouTube

this will put your arguments to rest about the diff's and how they work.
as for the OP's post crossovers are just that IMO they dont ride like a car, and dont haul like a truck. You cant really compare them to anything since it was a size created due to all of us selling our yukon's and explorers due to the cost of fuel. I do know that all of the GM's from the chev eqinox to the cadi thing are the same and whats worse they are all suzuki xuv's but with a much bigger price tag.

watch the vid and consider yourself a little smarter on 4x4, open diff's and locking diffs.