Big box stores: Inferior tools?

[jymbee]

... some say that tools can have the EXACT same model #, but be different and only way to know is the SN. THOSE are the tools that I (and I think k0ua) would like to see compaired. And NOT something with a similar but slightly different Model #

Yes, that's EXACTLY the issue under discussion. I thought virtually all agreed that slightly different model numbers of the same tool might well be an indication of different components.

But if model #123abc of Tool X purchased from BigBox, was found to have different components than Tool X with model #123abc purchased at Grainger e.g. there would be smoke coming from the proverbial gun...

 

[LD1]

But if model #123abc of Tool X purchased from BigBox, was found to have different components than Tool X with model #123abc purchased at Grainger e.g. there would be smoke coming from the proverbial gun...

And that is exactally whay some say is happening and exactally what I am skeptical of until proven otherwise.

I think we can all agree that there is most likely a difference in quality IF you are comparing abc123 to abc123a right?

 

[Carl Bert]

Yes, that's EXACTLY the issue under discussion. I thought virtually all agreed that slightly different model numbers of the same tool might well be an indication of different components.

But if model #123abc of Tool X purchased from BigBox, was found to have different components than Tool X with model #123abc purchased at Grainger e.g. there would be smoke coming from the proverbial gun...

Well if you go back to post #50, which was when I first chimed in to this discussion, I clearly state that the tools look identical but the model numbers are slightly different. Keep reading and you will see how many still disagreed. Then some plumbers stated that with plumbing fixtures, models are the same and serials are different (group codes). Then somewhere along the line guys started saying, that we have to compare tools that have exact same numbers. That was not the argument, at least not my argument.

 

[jymbee]

Well if you go back to post #50, which was when I first chimed in to this discussion, I clearly state that the tools look identical but the model numbers are slightly different. Keep reading and you will see how many still disagreed. Then some plumbers stated that with plumbing fixtures, models are the same and serials are different (group codes). Then somewhere along the line guys started saying, that we have to compare tools that have exact same numbers. That was not the argument, at least not my argument.

Carl,

I see your point, but having read all of the messages here it seems to me that the discussion now at least has come around to whether identical model numbers can be different between tools sold by BB vs. pro distributors.

Someone else pointed out that there were many similar discussions out there and when I did some searches I found that to be true. Not only are there oodles (my unofficial count) of such discussions, but virtually all are amazingly similar to this one. The names are different but the sentiments are nearly identical-- from both points of view.

But in all of the other posts I read I never was able to find a single post made where someone demonstrated conclusively that two tools with the same model number had different parts. Not one.

Also, in vitually all search results I came up with-- by any search terms I could think of to use-- led to these types of discussion groups. Not a single authorative page where some whistle blower for example came forward with evidence.

All this means little to nothing of course, but it does seem strange to me that given what seems to be such a popular theory of inferior tools, that nothing pops up to support that theory other than opinions expressed on discussion forums.

 

[Carl Bert]

Carl,

I see your point, but having read all of the messages here it seems to me that the discussion now at least has come around to whether identical model numbers can be different between tools sold by BB vs. pro distributors.

Someone else pointed out that there were many similar discussions out there and when I did some searches I found that to be true. Not only are there oodles (my unofficial count) of such discussions, but virtually all are amazingly similar to this one. The names are different but the sentiments are nearly identical-- from both points of view.

But in all of the other posts I read I never was able to find a single post made where someone demonstrated conclusively that two tools with the same model number had different parts. Not one.

Also, in vitually all search results I came up with-- by any search terms I could think of to use-- led to these types of discussion groups. Not a single authorative page where some whistle blower for example came forward with evidence.

All this means little to nothing of course, but it does seem strange to me that given what seems to be such a popular theory of inferior tools, that nothing pops up to support that theory other than opinions expressed on discussion forums.

Ok I have some new found information. I Purchased a Milwaukee cordless drill from HD about 6 months ago. It was on special, so for the price I figured why not. I just went and got it out of my shop to compare it to what Grainger sells. This is what I got. First, they are absolute EXACT clones of one another. Second, they both have the EXACT same specs. The only difference I can see is what is listed as a CAT NO. on the drill (at least I think its CAT., The drills a little scuffed so its hard to read). Anyway the Home Depot number is 2601-20 and the Grainger number is 2601-22.

If I had the Grainger drill in my hand, all questions would be answered. Does anyone out there have this drill with cat number 2601-22, if so we can both open them up and swap pics. That should give us some definite answers

The Grainger one is on special, so that pretty much says that its not a new model that just came out

 

[s219]

The Milwaukee website shows both the 2601-20 and -22. The -20 is tool only, while -22 is tool and batteries, so this might not be a good test case.

I will mention that my dad works for a manufacturing company that makes springs and stampings, and they have made parts for power tools for decades. The earliest memory I had on the subject was hearing about how Sears Craftsman tools (always made by another manufacturer) had some peculiar differences in parts specs. I remember they had parts in a Makita drill and its Sears twin, and the Sears unit got better specs and a higher price. It's not directly related to the discussion here, but I definitely think companies can spec out their tools in an infinite number of ways to meet a desired price target, market, and duty cycle.

 

[LD1]

The Milwaukee website shows both the 2601-20 and -22. The -20 is tool only, while -22 is tool and batteries, so this might not be a good test case.

Yep, thats the same thing I found out. And IMO, would actually be a good candidate, since PN's are Identical.

2601-20 tool only at HD is $99 and grainger is $118
2601-22 combo kit is the same price both places @ $159

So is the grainger one higher quality than the box-store "junk"???? or is grainger selling "junk" as well???? or.....could it be that the tools are actually the same????

 

[LD1]

It seems we have two groups of folks.

1. those like me who believe that IF the model numbers are identical, then the item is the same.
2. those who believe there is a difference even IF the model numbers are identical, but one is bought at a supply house and the other at a BB store.

Quick re-cap of who is in group 2:

note: there were others who chimed in and agreed with some of these that I didnt quote, because they didnt specifically say it, and it makes it difficult to quote, because only thier quote appears and not the quote of the person they quoted.

Buy a set of faucets from Lowes and buy the same brand/model from a plumbing supply house and take them apart. Plastic crap in Lowes and brass in plumbing house set. Boxes look the same. Not sure if this applies to tools.

Also, a item may have the same part number, but the serial number is what really counts. Manufacturers will have multiple suppliers building sub-assemblies for them. You will never know where or how that item was build until you need service on it.
"snip"

That statement could not possibly be more incorrect. The thing I am shocked about, is how many people are unaware of this fact. This is not a big secret, as I said before its common knowledge.

In response to :

But if you compare the exact same plumbing fixture in a big box store and the exact same fixture in a plumbing store, they are the same thing. The only difference is the price.

I have seen two Makita angle grinders, same model number different prices. One says made in Japan, one says made in China. Same model number on both.

In the past, I have seen w/ my own eyes, the exact same faucet
that I would buy at a supply house, I have seen it's quality and I have
seen the exact same part number at HD and it was cheapened TREMENDOUSLY.
"snip"
.

Putting cheaper components in tools that have the same case and model number has been going on for a long time.
"snip"

Well it seems there arent as many in the group 2 camp as I first though.

Any of you guys have any proof? Pictures? model number for model number...show us dis-believers the difference.

 

[Carl Bert]

The Milwaukee website shows both the 2601-20 and -22. The -20 is tool only, while -22 is tool and batteries, so this might not be a good test case.

I will mention that my dad works for a manufacturing company that makes springs and stampings, and they have made parts for power tools for decades. The earliest memory I had on the subject was hearing about how Sears Craftsman tools (always made by another manufacturer) had some peculiar differences in parts specs. I remember they had parts in a Makita drill and its Sears twin, and the Sears unit got better specs and a higher price. It's not directly related to the discussion here, but I definitely think companies can spec out their tools in an infinite number of ways to meet a desired price target, market, and duty cycle.

Ok that makes sense. ****, I thought I had the perfect solution to this unanswered question.

Ok I have one more story. I am at my brother in laws house and let him read this thread. Besides the fact that he couldn't believe how many people are ignorant to what goes on in these BB stores, but he also had a story.

His friend Eddie who works for a plumbing supply store, was in HD and saw a Ridged power tool that he wanted. He figured he could get it cheaper through his ridged supplier, so,he took down the model number. When he asked the supplier to get him the tool, the supplier said that model is made only for Home Depot, and could not be bought elsewhere. He didn't say why or that it was made cheaper, he just said he could not sell it to him.

I know this seems a bit coincidental, but I am telling you the truth. This is what he said.

 

[Soundguy]

i don't doubt that there are some too lines that are distributed only thru some palces. as I mentioned. i bought some uniroyal tires at a walmart one time.. wanted to get some more and was at a tire dealer who sold uniroyal. when he say the # on mine.. he told me that exact model of tire was a walmart only uniroyal.

now back to the post LD talked about.

same model number.. prefic and suffix and all.. that's the camp I'm in.

I'd need to see that the exact same model # has different parts.

that said.. i think we will have very few examples of the exact same tool sold at multiple places.

that said.. i would not always count on the tool sold in a multi pack being 100% identical to the tool sold alone. it does carry a differnt id number.. and COULD be different. I could easilly see that.

lets keep looking at what tools we have and see if others have same tools sold from different stores.