Loader refurbishing worse than when I starte

[woolyAcres]

Is the pump not marked? In should say in for your suction and out for your pressure. There are quite a few fittings in that suction line from looking just at the pump end. What fluid did you use? Do your supply or tank hydraulic lines get very warm?

I've not been able to find any markings on the pump. I suppose removing it might allow me to see something that's buried underneath, but even with the battery holder removed there's nothing that I can find on top or sides of the pump. Fluid is the same stuff recommend by Yanmar for the transmission/3PT; super trac 303. I used this because I had a couple gallons left over after replacing the tractor's fluids this summer. After more reading on this topic, I won't buy this again and when I replace the transmission fluid this summer I'll get something else.

Supply lines, pump, tank, etc don't get warm before things bubble over. That's the time I shut it down.

 

[woolyAcres]

Refer to earlier questions about rotational direction of tractor shaft, etc.
That's why I suggested earlier to map out with colored tape, the entire flow pattern.
Where was this pump before you attached it to the front shaft? Was it an integral part of the tractor or a complete add on, as far as you know?

The suggestion to color code everything is worthwhile. It would certainly help identify un-intended errors, but without any REAL knowledge or markings that I can find on the pump, the whole thing could be pumping backwards! I don't really think this is the case but some independent confirmation, based on the photo of the pump, would give a small confidence boost. I was hoping someone might be able to tell, based on the two big lobes in the front, me which side would be suction, and which is pressure.

This pump was mounted on the tractor before I purchased it. I think the front PTO was an option but I really couldn't say for sure. The tractor also came with a rear-mounted 3PT 'power pack' described here. I'm confident saying that some previous owner knew a few things about hydraulics. I sure that person bought the correct style pump (ccw/cw). Although I'm not certain, the think the rear PTO pump was for a post pounder. Not sure what the front pump would have been for. As far as I can tell, the factory FEL has always been plumbed into the same system used for the rear 3PT.

But what I think you're suggesting is that if I could tell which way the pump is supposed to rotate I could tell which side is suction and which side is pressure. Am I correct about that? I don't know off the top of my head, but it's easy enough to figure out tomorrow.

 

[woolyAcres]

Can you describe further how you ran it? Was the direction of flow the same as it is now?

Before deciding to move the FEL to this front pump I wanted to test that the pump worked. The previous owner, in the moth-balling process, I assume, basically plumbed the pump to the tank and back. To verify the pump worked, I re-coupled it to the engine front-shaft and looked into the tank. Milky fluid went in circles like gang busters. I don't remember any frothing. But at the same time there weren't any restriction on anything. Just plumbed in a big circle. All this fluid has been replaced as have one of the main 3/4" lines. I've added the filter and the valve, and did move the fittings around on the front pump while I was replacing the high-pressure line. I'm going to start there to see if I can re-tighten all those to be sure it's not sucking air there.

The noise is still a concern. It could be cavitation, it could be a bad bearing in the pump. I'm not sure how to tell them apart or how to diagnose them. The filter certainly could be too small. I really didn't know what to put in here so I went with a 20GPM return line filter. Maybe 10micron is too small for this fluid?

 

[woolyAcres]

I posted earlier about the regen.
I still believe that might be your problem.
The schematic says to hook up the boom to A+B 1 and the curl to A+B2

I'm open to all suggestions, but honestly, I don't know what or how to check for regen problems. I'm following the drawing below and I double checked it yesterday and this appears to be correct based solely on following the hoses.

That is not how you have posted that you have it hooked up.

I know this thread has already gotten kind of long, maybe I mis-spoke or mis-typed. I'll have to re-read to see where I explained how the loader lines are installed.

 

[woolyAcres]

Regarding the possibility that the hoses are reversed on the pump ... I don't think so because there is some functioning of the lift arms.

I've come to this conclusion myself. Things more or less work at this point, it's just loud (like something is about to break soon and frothy.

The pegging of the guage over 4000 is a big clue and a big concern. I wonder if you have hoses from the loader plumbed incorrectly. A circuit is made up of an A1 and B1, and the other is A2 and B2. If you plumbed A1 and A2 to a cylinder and B1 and B2 to a cylinder it would be incorrect, but I don't know how it would behave.

I adjusted the pressure relief valve down to about 1000 psi and it seems to be bypassing at this pressure. I haven't tried to turn it back up yet. Maybe something was stuck in there or it was set incorrectly at the factory. I'm more comfortable about this now that the pressure isn't spiking and trying to stall the tractor. The front pump is coupled to the front shaft with 2 shear pins. One was sheared off because of the spiking nature of this. Seems much better now.

I think you need to double check how you plumbed it from the loader control valve. This can be confusing, so look carefully. From the pictures, we can not trace where to lines go on the cylinders.

I realize that. If I can locate some different colored tape tomorrow I'll color code them and re-photograph.

Also, double check the return to tank line is plumbed to the correct port on the valve.

Will do.

 

[woolyAcres]

Also, do you have any quick disconnects in the loader circuit? They could fail and prevent oil from circulating correctly. I had some loader curl function not working correctly. I tested and debugged a number of ways and thought that I had proven that they worked but in fact my methods were not complete. There was in fact a quick disconnect that had been damaged and needed to be replaced.

No quick connects. I wanted some but they just kept driving the price up. If I'd know how much diagnosing was going to be involved I might have reconsidered. They'd keep my fluid from spilling all over the floor and might have paid for themselves.

 

[woolyAcres]

Are you getting air PRESSURE leaks mixed up with SUCTION leaks??

I use grease for suction leak detection but soapy water for pressure (air/gas ect).......it may work but, don't know if I want soapy water ending up in my hyd oil:2cents:

Are you suggesting rubbing some excess grease on the suspect fittings/couplings to see if it gets sucked into the line? I can certainly do that. Might be easier to see over soapy water. Based on the condition of the fluid in this tank when I got it seems keeping water out is a good idea.

 

[woolyAcres]

Here is the OP's report on the pressure from his earlier post:

"I confirmed the lines are connected correctly and in fact, after adjusting the pressure relief valve (down to 1000psi) things seem to be going better. I think maybe the relief valve was stuck. I plan to adjust it back upward to 2000psi but I've still got a problem to solve. It seems the system is really sucking air from somewhere. After running for about 3 minutes the tank overflowed because of all the air it had drawn in."

I am not sure but I think the shuddering and screaming may be resolved.

The pressure is certainly better. Yesterday as I was trying to get it moved outside so I could attempt to bleed the rest of the air that I think is still in the cylinders it bubbled over. That caught me off guard and forced me to shut it down. I'll get it going again tomorrow and be more careful and observant about what's going on regarding pressure, shuddering, screaming, etc. My memory is the shuddering and screaming are still there but the might have been when the pressure was at 4000psi. Stay tuned.

 

[TomSeller]

Are you suggesting rubbing some excess grease on the suspect fittings/couplings to see if it gets sucked into the line? I can certainly do that. Might be easier to see over soapy water. Based on the condition of the fluid in this tank when I got it seems keeping water out is a good idea.

If you smear grease smoothly all around each fitting a suction leak will show as a hole in the grease. Make sure it is smooth so yu can see a hole better. You would not need to pressurize the line, just run it normal. And you won't need to run it long.

 

[Leejohn]

If it's cavitation at the pump see if can turn the pump 180 degs and put the 90's in the pressure side. that would give you a stright shot into the intake. If the pump should ture CW then make a bracket and make it belt drive. I have a feeling the pump is to run CW not CCW and that is why you got 4000psi.