Water Pressure

[fried1765]

The easiest fix is to put a water tower at the top of the hill and pump to that. It'll keep a constant pressure on the entire system. That's how most larger municipal systems maintain their pressure, much less fluctuation from gravity than from a pump.

Most residential use stays at 5GPM or less so, a 4" pipe is within reasonable design standards and well above it if it's looped. If it's not looped, maxed out at a flow of 250 GPM, you're at 6.4fps, we like to stay below 5fps but this isn't enough over to be a deal breaker, and friction loss is only 1.2psi per 100'. Keep in mind that every time the water passes a house in this scenario, 5GPM peels off and those numbers all go down. Again, if that main line is looped around the neighborhood, these numbers will be substantially lower, less than 1/2, so your pipe size isn't the problem, it's the elevation.

If I was in charge of the water department and on a tight budget, I'd go to the highest elevation spot in the neighborhood and install a 15,000 gallon or larger storage tank and it would help a lot. If I had a big budget, I'd install a 100,000 gallon elevated water tower and the problem would be gone forever.

If neither of those are possibilities and I was a homeowner on top of the hill, I'd install an RPZ backflow valve at my water meter, a booster pump where the water comes into the house and an expansion tank by my water heater. I'd set the pump to 60 PSI and have better pressure than anyone else in the neighborhood.

"an expansion tank by my water heater"


Absolutely necessary,( for safety) if your water supply system has a backflow preventer installed.

 

[EddieWalker]

4 inch main is plenty big enough for a couple hundred houses. If the pipe isn't leaking, that's not your issue.

The variations in your pressure indicate that the pump is not up to the job. It's either too small, or not a very good pump. As mentioned by others, a water tower solves a lot of pump issues.

 

[Ken45101]

I think the 4" line is adequate. That's probably larger than many rural water systems.

We are on a large private rural water system. I had our pressure checked. It is 120 PSI down at the road and 45 PSI here at the house (160 ft elevation change.) The water company guy said that's plenty of pressure, they do not guarantee more than 35 psi at the house IIRC.

 

[buickanddeere]

Can稚 Even have such a system in Canada anymore after the Walkerton Water Crisis. Whole entire Government agencies/empires with near unlimited power power and budgets control everything.

 

[orezok]

4 inch main is plenty big enough for a couple hundred houses. If the pipe isn't leaking, that's not your issue.

Not if there is a fire!

 

[davek78063]

I think the 4" line is adequate. That's probably larger than many rural water systems.

We are on a large private rural water system. I had our pressure checked. It is 120 PSI down at the road and 45 PSI here at the house (160 ft elevation change.) The water company guy said that's plenty of pressure, they do not guarantee more than 35 psi at the house IIRC.

Apparently in TX they only have to provide 35 psi at the street. To answer one of the questions about the system being looped, it is not. The upper section has a Y that is dead-ended on each end even though both ends are only a couple hundred feet at most. I have suggested that they be connected because I thought that it would serve two purposes. First would provide even pressure around the entire loop for all customers. Secondly would provide better circulation and enable better flushing. We have had at least on blockage with contaminants but have been assured that isn't our issue any longer. I was also told that connecting the two ends would just cause both legs would oppose each other causing "other" undisclosed problems. I have also thought that we needed to have 2 water tanks, one on the upper and the existing tank on the lower. The issue would be the cost of adding a tank and also purchasing a lot to put it on. Coincidentally, the upper section was added to the neighborhood.

 

[quicksandfarmer]

Apparently in TX they only have to provide 35 psi at the street. To answer one of the questions about the system being looped, it is not. The upper section has a Y that is dead-ended on each end even though both ends are only a couple hundred feet at most. I have suggested that they be connected because I thought that it would serve two purposes. First would provide even pressure around the entire loop for all customers. Secondly would provide better circulation and enable better flushing. We have had at least on blockage with contaminants but have been assured that isn't our issue any longer. I was also told that connecting the two ends would just cause both legs would oppose each other causing "other" undisclosed problems. I have also thought that we needed to have 2 water tanks, one on the upper and the existing tank on the lower. The issue would be the cost of adding a tank and also purchasing a lot to put it on. Coincidentally, the upper section was added to the neighborhood.

When a section is added to the neighborhood, who makes the money? That's who should be handling the cost of upgrading the water.

 

[Diggin It]

Our county system serving a few thousand homes varies from 12" or larger on main roads down to 4" running down the side roads feeding the houses. Meters are all 5/8" unless you pay more for larger. Several large water tanks scattered throughout the service area well above the highest homes maintain pressure.

Fire trucks all have tanks and carry portable canvas tanks for additional capacity. Tanker trucks shuttle water from hydrants which are 'flush plugs' that fill tanks at system pressure/flow . They only connect to and pump from hydrants in certain city areas.

I get 80# on the gauge in the house with everything closed, but it drops to under 50 with any tap open.

 

[Valveman]

If you have 30 to 50 PSI in the upper section, which is 75' in elevation more than the well location, then the well should be working at 60 to 80 PSI. So when they get it up to 50 at your house, the pump is just shutting off at 80 PSI. Then as the pressure tank drains from 80 to 60, the pressure at your house drops from 50 down to 30. A submersible pump in the water well can probably build as much pressure as you want. It can probably be easily turned up from 60/80 to 80/100, which would give 50 to 70 at the upper houses. This is similar to pump stations for high rise buildings. And same as with high rise buildings, the lower floors or lower houses in this case would each need a pressure reducing valve to knock the 80/100 down to a more usable 50 PSI at the lower houses.

A water tower at the lower elevation would need to be 162' tall to get 50 PSI to the upper elevation. Then the lower houses would still need pressure reducing valve to drop the pressure from 70 to 50. A fat water tower could work with a pressure bandwidth smaller than the hydro tank. Instead of 60/80 as with a hydro tank, a water tower could work at say 68/72, which would be more consistent pressure throughout.

Booster pumps can't work unless the well pump can supply enough water to boost. Usually when a booster pump is running, the water users on the lower or suction side experience really low pressure as the booster draws on the bottom line to add more pressure to the upper line.

An easy answer is to add a Cycle Stop Valve to the well pump. This would allow you to reduce the on/off bandwidth to 68/72 as though it was a water tower instead of a hydro tank. The CSV would be set to maintain a constant 70 PSI. This would give a constant 70 PSI to the lower houses, and a constant 50 PSI to the upper houses.

CSV's are used a lot when maintenance is being done to a water tower. During the month or three the tower is being repaired and painted, the CSV is maintaining a constant 70 PSI to the city night and day. City residents usually always notice the pressure is stronger and more constant while the CSV is in control. Here is a link to a review from a city who used CSV's to maintain constant pressure to the city.
CSV Control While Water Tower being serviced

 

[davek78063]

If you have 30 to 50 PSI in the upper section, which is 75' in elevation more than the well location, then the well should be working at 60 to 80 PSI. So when they get it up to 50 at your house, the pump is just shutting off at 80 PSI. Then as the pressure tank drains from 80 to 60, the pressure at your house drops from 50 down to 30. A submersible pump in the water well can probably build as much pressure as you want. It can probably be easily turned up from 60/80 to 80/100, which would give 50 to 70 at the upper houses. This is similar to pump stations for high rise buildings. And same as with high rise buildings, the lower floors or lower houses in this case would each need a pressure reducing valve to knock the 80/100 down to a more usable 50 PSI at the lower houses.

A water tower at the lower elevation would need to be 162' tall to get 50 PSI to the upper elevation. Then the lower houses would still need pressure reducing valve to drop the pressure from 70 to 50. A fat water tower could work with a pressure bandwidth smaller than the hydro tank. Instead of 60/80 as with a hydro tank, a water tower could work at say 68/72, which would be more consistent pressure throughout.

Booster pumps can't work unless the well pump can supply enough water to boost. Usually when a booster pump is running, the water users on the lower or suction side experience really low pressure as the booster draws on the bottom line to add more pressure to the upper line.

An easy answer is to add a Cycle Stop Valve to the well pump. This would allow you to reduce the on/off bandwidth to 68/72 as though it was a water tower instead of a hydro tank. The CSV would be set to maintain a constant 70 PSI. This would give a constant 70 PSI to the lower houses, and a constant 50 PSI to the upper houses.

CSV's are used a lot when maintenance is being done to a water tower. During the month or three the tower is being repaired and painted, the CSV is maintaining a constant 70 PSI to the city night and day. City residents usually always notice the pressure is stronger and more constant while the CSV is in control. Here is a link to a review from a city who used CSV's to maintain constant pressure to the city.
CSV Control While Water Tower being serviced

I think the pumps at the pump house are actually coming on at like 80 lbs and shutting off at 100 psi. I am not sure if there is a CSV but I know there are two pumps that alternate. I think the answer is for me to install a tank of my own and then add a pressure tank and pump on my own property. I think if I install a 1500 gal tank i can just draw off that and create my own pressure then they can do whatever they want. Does anyone know where I can get a drawing of how to hook that up and the maintenance required for that? I also got a quote for 2500 just for the pump and parts, not including a tank. ~1200 of that was for the pump. I have seen pumps for 1/3 of that at the big box stores. The installer claimed they are cheap and the one he sells is much more reliable. Is it really worth the extra $$. I could buy like 3 cheap ones for the cost of the expensive one. Thoughts???