Hay running up the belts on my JD 457 baler

[Bigfoot62]

I'm at a crossroad. I want input from those experienced with round balers, please.

Here's where I'm at.
I have a 457 that I bought used 6 years ago. I've always had some problem with hay running up the belts. Sometimes worse than others. It always happened with damp hay, but this cutting was completely dry. I cut Monday and didn't finish baling until Saturday. Last week was a "worse" time. Because of frequent rains, I had not cut in nearly two months. The grass was almost waist deep and very thick. Yield was about 3 rolls (4x5) per acre. I think, because of the long stems, it was worse this time than ever before.

The total bale count is just under 8000 rolls.
Here's what I've done:
I was told to decrease engine RPM's. That helps, but now I'm only traveling at about 3.5 MPH. Makes for a long day in the field.
I was told to replace the belts. Snags and tears in the belt can catch the hay and pull it along. Put all new belts on last year, but that didn't fix it. If anything, it might be worse.
I was told to add the outside compressor tines. (the baler had 4 tines, but holes for 4 more) Just did that last week before baling. That didn't fix it either.

There are no pickup teeth missing. (was told that could cause it too)

Now, after talking to two different JD mechanics last week, that the fix is to put a "silage roller and knife" kit on it. ($1500-2000) One of the mechanics admitted that he had put this kit on a BRAND NEW 459 just a couple weeks ago!!!

I'm wondering if I just need to cut my losses and trade it in. I'm tired of climbing up on the front of the baler and cutting the hay from the tension roller. I'm tired of throwing money at this baler and it still giving problems. (I've spent about $3000 on it in just the last two years. New belts, new PTO shaft, etc.) Another factor is I'm thinking of buying a new baler while I'm still working and can pay for it. I'd rather not be making notes on equipment after I retire.

I'm looking at a new Vermeer 504N. Any comments on that model? I had thought about a new 459, but after the mechanic told me that they were having to retrofit brand new 459's, I'm reluctant to trade for a new JD.
BTW, in my part of the world, JD or Vermeer is the only two that I'd consider. No local dealers for any other brands here. I have Vermeer dealers 20 and 50 miles away, and JD dealers 50 and 75 miles away.

 

[Tx Jim]

IMHO the reason adding new starter roll helps is because new roller has more gripping ability than worn starter roller. Back the 80's when I was a JD dealer service manager I supervised welding on the leading edge of rectangular bars on metal starter roller on 430/530 rd balers. My 467 with over 22,000 bales on it rarely runs hay up the frt of belts but I rarely bale over 450 pto rpm's. Slow ground speed isn't a problem as I shift the trans to a higher gear to run 6 MPH. I've added weld to spiral rod on the 467 starter roll a couple of times. I even added a 14'' rod on each side in between each existing rod.. Sandy soil tends to wear the edge off the bars or rods depending on baler model. I tested an experimental spiral rod starter roll for JD in a 435. After about 5000 or 6000 bales I begin to have bale core starting & hay running up frt belts problems so JD sent a new roller from Ottumwa and a tech to install it. Problems went away but came back in about 5000-6000 more bales then I just weld on the the rods. Present 467 is the 1st to add extra rods to but if I got another baler with same problems I'd add the extra rods to it. Try adding the short rods as I think you'll like the results and it won't cost very much to find out.

 

[Bigfoot62]

IMHO the reason adding new starter roll helps is because new roller has more gripping ability than worn starter roller. Back the 80's when I was a JD dealer service manager I supervised welding on the leading edge of rectangular bars on metal starter roller on 430/530 rd balers. My 467 with over 22,000 bales on it rarely runs hay up the frt of belts but I rarely bale over 450 pto rpm's. Slow ground speed isn't a problem as I shift the trans to a higher gear to run 6 MPH. I've added weld to spiral rod on the 467 starter roll a couple of times. I even added a 14'' rod on each side in between each existing rod.. Sandy soil tends to wear the edge off the bars or rods depending on baler model. I tested an experimental spiral rod starter roll for JD in a 435. After about 5000 or 6000 bales I begin to have bale core starting & hay running up frt belts problems so JD sent a new roller from Ottumwa and a tech to install it. Problems went away but came back in about 5000-6000 more bales then I just weld on the the rods. Present 467 is the 1st to add extra rods to but if I got another baler with same problems I'd add the extra rods to it. Try adding the short rods as I think you'll like the results and it won't cost very much to find out.

Jim,
Thanks for the info. I may try that. The frustration factor on this thing is through the roof.

Still doesn't explain why a NEW baler would have the same problem, though.

 

[moriboy]

We bought a new 458 a few years back. While we didn't have the same problem you are experiencing, we had numerous other issues (plugging, net wrap not cutting, net wrap tangling on upper roller, limit switch brackets breaking), so we traded it for a Massey. No comparison, the MF has been an outstanding machine in every way.

 

[Bigfoot62]

We bought a new 458 a few years back. While we didn't have the same problem you are experiencing, we had numerous other issues (plugging, net wrap not cutting, net wrap tangling on upper roller, limit switch brackets breaking), so we traded it for a Massey. No comparison, the MF has been an outstanding machine in every way.

You probably have a local MF dealer. I don't. The closest MF dealer is nearly 400 miles away from me.
As I said, I'll only consider JD or Vermeer because that's what I can get dealer support for.
But, thanks for your input.

 

[Tx Jim]

We bought a new 458 a few years back. While we didn't have the same problem you are experiencing, we had numerous other issues (plugging, net wrap not cutting, net wrap tangling on upper roller, limit switch brackets breaking), so we traded it for a Massey. No comparison, the MF has been an outstanding machine in every way.

All implements can have problems. Your implements(rd baler) problem was the repair persons IQ or lack of desire/knowledge to fix problem wasn't higher than the baler IQ. I've owned several new & 1 used JD rd balers and have baled over 150,000 rd bales with them and have owned only one JD rd baler that didn't give good service. This baler was a 466 MW pickup that IMHO the feeder fingers under pickup attachment were of poor design. The 467 I traded for present baler had 30,000 bales on monitor & presently owned 467 has over 22,000 on it.

 

[Tx Jim]

Jim,
Thanks for the info. I may try that. The frustration factor on this thing is through the roof.

Still doesn't explain why a NEW baler would have the same problem, though.

After yrs of selling/demonstrating/operating rd balers since the early 80'sn I can assure you it could just be circumstances or operator. I would like to know what roller & knife technician replaced. The only roller that really affects hay running up frt belts excluding the augers is starter roller plus the only roller I know of with an associated knife(scraper) is the starter roll which BTW is the same for all 459 models plus some 469's. Part # for starter roll is AFH207921. I emailed you my phone number so please call me & I'll try to assist you before you spend a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Bigfoot62]

After yrs of selling/demonstrating/operating rd balers since the early 80'sn I can assure you it could just be circumstances or operator. I would like to know what roller & knife technician replaced. The only roller that really affects hay running up frt belts excluding the augers is starter roller plus the only roller I know of with an associated knife(scraper) is the starter roll which BTW is the same for all 459 models plus some 469's. Part # for starter roll is AFH207921. I emailed you my phone number so please call me & I'll try to assist you before you spend a lot of $$$$$$$$$$$

Jim,
I'm not sure, since I haven't taken it in. I've only talked to them on the phone. But, from what I can gather, it's the "auger style" roller (#5 in the picture) and the associated "knife." (8&14)
Thanks for the offer of talking to you by phone.

BTW, I've checked my inbox, and there's nothing there. ???

 

[Tx Jim]

I tried a different route on phone # as I sent you a PM this time. I think the augers would just be more items to wear out/replace. I think welding on starter roll will help your baler. Does your baler have surface wrap attachment?

 

[Bigfoot62]

Got the PM. Thanks.

No net wrap. My baler is twine only.