4100 Fried Fuel Shutoff Solenoid

[HD4010]

Hi,

I have a problem with my 4100 hydro and was hoping someone on here might be able to help.

For reasons I wont get into I was running with a dead battery that would not take a charge. I jumped it and was running it for about 30 minutes or so that then it died on me like the key was turned off. I put it in neutral and jump started it again but when I put it in gear it died, even though I was on the seat. I started again, got off, lifted the seat and manually pushed the safety switch under the seat and then put it in gear and it immediately died. I restarted and then heard a hissing noise and smoke poured out from under the tractor and it smelled of electrical stuff burning.

I shut off and stepped back, looking for flames and when I didn't see any and the smoke cleared I popped the hood and took off the side panel and could see the end of the fuel shutoff solenoid was melted. I touched it and blistered my finger it was so hot.

Obviously I need a new solenoid but I'm wondering what might have caused this. Is this a symptom of a bigger issue?

Could it be related to running it with the bad battery?

At $180 a pop for a new solenoid I don't want to just replace and fry the new one if there is an underlying problem. How should I go about diagnosing if there are other problems? If it were just a bad solenoid I suspect the first symptom would not have been it dying and then starting again but dying when put in gear...

Any help is greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
HD

 

[JD755]

Sounds like the high current pull-in coil in the solenoid had continuous power. That would burn up the coil. Could also be what ran down your battery. Control Module A2 should normally activate the coil for just one second. I would start with A2. Some data is attached, but basically you can put a voltmeter on the wire for the pull-in coil and look for 12 volts to be there for just one second when you turn the key to start.

Edit: After analyzing the circuit, it could also be the contacts of Relay K3 have welded shut with the high current. This would be cheaper than a new A2 and more likely.

 

[HD4010]

Wow,

Thanks a lot JD755 that's awesome. Are the images from the 4100 technical manual?

Just a note on the battery, I was away for 6 months and had the batteries out of both my tractors for storage (4010 and 4100) and when I reinstalled them the 4100 got the dead one. I was planning on getting a new one but in the mean time I needed to run the 4100 because it had the loader on it so I just jumped and thought I would be ok until I bought got a new battery in a day or 2 after getting settled in. Should have waited, now I have a project I wasn't counting on...

Thanks for your help, I'll post a reply when I find the problem.
HD

 

[JD755]

Yes, the images are from the 4100 technical manual. Good luck on your repair efforts.

 

[Derre755]

I see that Fried Fuel Shutoff Solenoid. They are not that expensive. I just rebuilt my john deere 755 compact and had it almost fully restored besides the engine was good and only has 202 hours on it. i rebuilt everything because it was sitting in a farm field for like 10 years and it is a 1997. So i tooking it down to the bare frame and replaced everypart that i could besides the engine. It runs like a new tractor from the show room floor and I am very happy with it too and it was also repainted to and the loader was also rebuilt too.

 

[HD4010]

Hi JD755.

I was going through some of the test and realized I'm guessing on some steps. For example, it has me checking the fuel relay but I'm not 100% sure which this is. I tried tracing wires and I think I found it but was wondering if you could confirm.

I have the plastic panel off under the instrument panel and I'm looking at what look like 4 relays lined up at the bottom. I think it's the 1st on the left?

Oh, and I did figure out it runs great with the solenoid removed Not that I'll be working it that way but it was good to know it still runs fine and this is really the problem.

Thanks,
HD4010

 

[JD755]

Looks like K3 Fuel Relay (12) is toward the rear. From your viewing angle that could be the left?

 

[HD4010]

Hi,

Thanks a ton for the diagram. I've got to get a tech manual! Yes, K3 is the one I thought. I found out that the pull circuit for the solenoid is hot all the time when the key is in the run position which is what burned up my solenoid. Hopefully it's this relay and not the control module that is the problem. Looking at the cost of the control module, I was thinking about rewiring the pull circuit to the starter solenoid. This way it would be energized when I hit the starter, serving the same purpose as the control module.

Thanks again,
HD4010

 

[JD755]

JD has used different methods to momentarily activate the solenoid. Control modules, thermistors, and (what I like best) just connecting it to the starter. That is how my 755 is done and is what you are contemplating. I never knew why they got away from the simplicity of that method. Nothing to go wrong, and very reliable.

If you make the change because the module is bad, check its other functions also. It has inputs from safety switches and the "bounce off seat" time delay that still need to work.

 

[RalphVa]

Once you fix the solenoid/other problem, you might want to look into a battery tender. I just bought another one, incl shipping, for about $29. Thought the one on my generator had gone bad. It was the solution to keeping the battery on my generator up to snuff. Had tried starting and running once/month and then a trickle charger on timer. Nothing worked to keep the battery up until I got the tender.

Tried the old tender on my truck. It worked again. Think I'll put it on the 4010's battery for the winter.

Ralph