Kioti Dk35 2013 no start (good battery)

[bradthesing]

Helping a friend with his Kioti DK35 that will not start. We turn the key on, glow plug light comes on and eventually goes off, then turn key to start(one of the two identical relays under hood on fire wall cycles) but engine does not spin over. It has a new battery. On the starter solenoid we jumped the small solenoid control wire to the heavy positive wire going into the starter solenoid and three tractor starts up. Spins over great with plenty of power. Volt meter showed good voltage. Headlights work, dim slightly when spinning tractor over.

Swapped wires to relays on fire wall, opposite one cycles when key is turned to the start position.

Not sure if the solenoid that cycles when key is turned to start is part of the electric defueling.

The electric defueling actuator linkage is disconnected prior to him ever getting the tractor. Has a mechanic defuel pull linkage to kill tractor.

Are both firewall relays supposed to energize? One energizing allowing fuel the other energizing sending power to engage starter solenoid?

Headed back over to look at the tractor again today. Going to check safety circuits, if any... Has mechanical pto and gear shift transmission.

Any additional direction would greatly be appreciated!

 

[k0ua]

If it is a 2013 model, it NOT a DK35 it would be a DK35se.. Big differences in the wiring. Shown below is some information for the DK35se. So lets first determine if the tractor is a DK35 or a DK35se. Why someone would hack the fuel stop solenoid and system is a mystery to me and throws a LARGE red flag. What else did they do, and why. Are some of the control modules defective is why they did this? Questions, questions.

 

[k0ua]

here is a replacement start or fuel stop relay you can obtain locally from an auto parts store if needed instead of buying the high dollar kioti ones.

 

[k0ua]

Here is the portion of the wiring diagram for a gear equipped DK35se. It is pretty simple. You need to take some measurements to determine if the starter solenoid is getting plus voltage from the ST section of the key switch. and if the ground is being delivered to the other side of the start relay coil thru the neutral safety switch and diode.

 

[k0ua]

I am assuming of course from your description that the engine does not crank. One quick way to determine if the start relay is getting power and ground on its coil is to put your hand on it and have an assistant attempt to crank the engine. Do you feel the relay pull up? If so then the problem is likely burned contacts on the relay not sending power down to the starter solenoid. As you have proven to yourself that the starter solenoid and starter motor are good. Of course defective wiring could always be a problem as well. But if the wiring is good, and the starter relay energized AND the contacts of the starter relay make contact , then the tractor MUST crank. It does not have a choice. So one of these conditions are not being met.

 

[k0ua]

Are both firewall relays supposed to energize? One energizing allowing fuel the other energizing sending power to engage starter solenoid?

OK, lets go over this step by step as it gets a little tricky. There are 3 relays not two. The larger one in the middle is the preheat relay, it is a 70 amp contact rated relay, and its coil is controlled by a module to run for predetermined time if the water jacket temperature is below 86 degrees. Then it also has a post glow function to stay on for a few seconds after the tractor is started and is running. But you indicated that all of this is probably working.

Now the other two relays. The right hand one is the fuel stop relay. It is complicated too, as it is driven by a 1 second ground pulse from one of the modules and it supplies high current to the fuel stop solenoids primary coil called the "pull coil" (you indicated that the fuel stop solenoid had been removed) The one second pulse of course goes away in 1 second of time, so then the fuel stop solenoid's secondary coil called the hold coil is driven directly off of the key switch's "on" power buss. This holds the coil energized at a much lower current and when the key is turned "off" then this solenoid drops out and the fuel rack cannot any longer apply fuel to the injectors.

Now to the start relay. You indicated that the tractor was a gear model, so that makes this description somewhat easier.
It appears that the ST terminal on the key switch goes thru the PTO switch (A and B on the diagram) and then to the high side of the start relay coil and the ground side of the coil goes thru a diode to ground completing the circuit.

 

[murphy1244]

James my friend you are on a roll!:thumbsup: Good job, I am glad you have a machine like mine. Makes it much easier to pick your brain.

 

[k0ua]

James my friend you are on a roll!:thumbsup: Good job, I am glad you have a machine like mine. Makes it much easier to pick your brain.

I was just thinking one of these days I am going to go out the start the Kioti, and it won't start!:shocked: It always has, but some day....

 

[DK35vince]

I was just thinking one of these days I am going to go out the start the Kioti, and it won't start!:shocked: It always has, but some day....

That's happened to me twice in 15+ years.
Once was a bad ground where the - battery cable bolts to the frame.
Once when the original battery gave up at 11 years old.
Both easy to find and fix.

 

[Avondale]

OK, lets go over this step by step as it gets a little tricky. There are 3 relays not two. The larger one in the middle is the preheat relay, it is a 70 amp contact rated relay, and its coil is controlled by a module to run for predetermined time if the water jacket temperature is below 86 degrees. Then it also has a post glow function to stay on for a few seconds after the tractor is started and is running. But you indicated that all of this is probably working.

Now the other two relays. The right hand one is the fuel stop relay. It is complicated too, as it is driven by a 1 second ground pulse from one of the modules and it supplies high current to the fuel stop solenoids primary coil called the "pull coil" (you indicated that the fuel stop solenoid had been removed) The one second pulse of course goes away in 1 second of time, so then the fuel stop solenoid's secondary coil called the hold coil is driven directly off of the key switch's "on" power buss. This holds the coil energized at a much lower current and when the key is turned "off" then this solenoid drops out and the fuel rack cannot any longer apply fuel to the injectors.

Now to the start relay. You indicated that the tractor was a gear model, so that makes this description somewhat easier.
It appears that the ST terminal on the key switch goes thru the PTO switch (A and B on the diagram) and then to the high side of the start relay coil and the ground side of the coil goes thru a diode to ground completing the circuit.

Very good explanation. Thank You.