injector pump internals stuck...

[thetester]

Hey guys I posted another thread asking about fuel lines.. Now that I have that worked out thanks to you guys I have delved into deeper waters... Let me start by saying I came up on this ole Bison II almost free.. I traded an old 88 dodge dakota not running in real rough shape for it.. I gave 400 for the truck when I bought it back in 98..

The tractor sat up for a few years and got a water in the fuel tank.. After a day of trying to bleed and purge the air I finally found that I was NOT getting anything out of the injector lines.. I was getting fuel TO but not OUT.. Now I know all about the timing issues that can be ran into with pumps but I could not resist.. I tore into the pump by taking off the access plates.. I can see where the spring loaded pumps one for each injector rides on a cam.. Each pump has a roller that rides upon the cam lobe.. Funny thing I notice right away was there was NO oil in the cam area where all the rolling and actions are applied... I can tell also that when the lifter comes up to push the injector pump it will come up but only push the spring about 1/8 an inch.. Im guessing the spring components are stuck..

Now pardon my lack of knowledge on the subject or component names/terminology .. This is the first run in with diesel and what I've learned is what I've got from the net, books and of course this site..

Questions >>>> are there anything I should be careful or pay extra close attention to as I try to take these spring components/plunger/pumps out or unstick them??
Is the cam supposed to be submerged in oil or is it just greased??
Any ideas on unsticking these "pump" "plungers" that are stuck without damage??


I will post pictures of the assembly when I get back in from working on the tractor..

Thanks guys again for reading and helping!!

 

[doxford jim]

One very important thing to consider is cleanliness. The clearances on injection pump parts are very fine and critical. A very small piece of dirt can ruin an injection pump.
Have you given any thought to getting a diesel injection shop to overhaul the pump - or if that proves prohibitively expensive, maybe installing a new injection pump ? Your call of course and a lot depends on the condition of both the tractor and the present injection pump and your abilities.
Something to think about as overhauling an injection pump is not for novices - for a whole lotta reasons.
HTH

 

[thetester]

Ok I got the assembly apart and got it cleaned.. I used carb cleaner and ZEP 45 along with a little compressed air... I got them unstuck but as I figured not ever touching anything like this before I AGAIN found myself lost..

Here are the pictures of the assembly. Sorry I do not know the names of the parts but maybe you guys can help with that??/

a pump sort of like mine for reference..



Here are the parts that was stuck up in the tubes




Here is the upper cap assembly that the injector lines screw onto..



here you can see the shafts that go in the tube.. The tubes have two holes a recess concave hole and a woodruff slot style hole.. There is a pilot screw that you can see in the upper photo with like a dial pin on the end of it.. When I put the tubes back in I am not sure which way they go in.. Does the pilot or dial pin screw go in the slot or the concave hole????????


Here you can see the other side of the tube with the woodruff style slot..


Here is the front of the assembly where the pilot dial pin type screws are installed...




Not knowing ANYTHING about these things I took all the screws and small parts out afraid of breaking or gaulling something.. I have done things like this way to many times and finally learned that things break when you try tapping or pulling them apart.. What I havn't leaned is to TAKE FRIGGIN pictures... I was more afraid of breaking something that I didn't take a mental not of looking in the holes to see how things lined up..

This tractor literally don't have any litrature or manuals.. Its a little jap import tractor.. Stout and durable I have been told but not many places to buy parts or get information..

I am sure that the concepts are all the same just maybe manufactured a little diff or things in diff places but maybe you guys can tell me how these tubes go back and if the whole pump needs to be filled with oil..

 

[thetester]

Here is another picture of the pump assembly that I have found on the net.. You can see on the left side there is a concave hole but the other side is flat or in my case woodruff or slit.. The pilot pin screw I AM ASSUMING is the hole the sleeve in place while the plunger goes up and down.. I am just not sure how these sleeves are supposed to set inside the housing and how the dial screws are supposed to screw onto the sleeve?????

 

[thetester]

Ok guys after inspecting this thing and scratching the hair off my head I got it figured out or so I think..
I got the injectors pumping.. I took the injectors out and they are misting really great..

The thing now is the tractor "wants" to start but it is blowing white smoke.. I am assuming this is a LOT of unburned diesel.. It will chug about five or six seconds before it dies.. The throttle don't help any or make a difference.. I can almost watch how fast it is draining from a little clear fuel filter that was put in line to test if the injectors are pumping..

I aint really even sure how the throttle works with the pump to throttle up or down or to meter the fuel flow..

 

[Coyote machine]

You've succeeded in taking apart a very close tolerance IP that you say has sat for years with water in it's fuel tank. Do you even know which pump plunger goes with what cylinder? The questions you ask ought to have been asked BEFORE you took everything apart, seemingly in no particular order, and with no pics or notes as to what went where?!:confused3:
The parts look to be severely scored and/or worn in certain places, especially near the 'collars' of the pump plungers. This kind of work is best left to EXPERTS who do this type of work everyday, have the specs and tools for diagnostic testing BEFORE disassembly, and parts to rebuild the pump IF it can be brought back to proper tolerances, assuming it hasn't been ruined by abuse, misuse or lack of use over time. Rebuilding of these pumps by the manufacturers who made them is often done in a 'clean room'; a place where even microscopic dust is filtered out under negative air handlers and the techs are wearing head to toe suits that also eliminate any particulate contamination.

You may have managed to get the pump access plates off, and free up seized plungers, but I highly doubt that even though you now have a spray pattern out of the existing injectors that the IP is anywhere near delivering the correct amount of fuel at anywhere near the correct piston timing.

I would hazard a guess that the IP gets it's lube from the engine via a pump internal to the IP, but I cannot say for sure because I'm not familiar with your tractor or it's IP.

Do take pics before, during, and after disassembly, of anything like this IP in future.

 

[skyhook]

Not knowing ANYTHING about these things

This is why you should leave these to the experts.
You would have been better off filling the pump with some sort of "degreaser /parts cleaner etc" and letting it soak, the timing is most likely off now....
Sorry to say, but you may now have a dead pump on your hands, or an engine stick of dynamite.
Good luck.