My Industrial Cabin Build

[dstig1]

The only downside to a sheet of plywood is that it is shockingly hard to pound in the nails on the cable staples into plywood. A lot easier if you stick a pine 1x (or 2x) board where you want to nail down the wires. You could even put it right on top of the plywood.

 

[EddieWalker]

I think I missed something on the placement of the box. Is it going on an internal wall? All the external walls are SIPS, so wouldn't it have to go on an internal wall?

Why not just remove one stud?

I hate mounting a panel on plywood. It should be in the wall and all the wires should be covered by sheetrock. This isn't CODE, it's just best practice to having a nice house

 

[WoodChuckDad]

I wrote all this last night but apparently it didn’t send.
I put up a 37 inch wide piece of 3/4 plywood over the hole. Wife painted it white. I will mount the panel this week. I’m not removing the 12 g wire. Its been pulled and cut. Replacing is just gonna cost me money.
I don’t like changing horses in mid stream for no good reason. My reason for going with 12 was heat resistance. But I honestly don’t know much about it. I based it on conversation with people who have more experience than I do.
With lots of the pieces of building this house I have done so much research that it becomes noise. And sometimes you have to step back and just stop and make a decision.
I don’t have the time or ability to research everything or quite frankly, I would never have time to swing a hammer.
But, I need to get up to speed fast on this electrical wiring stuff. I’m not trying to get a PHD. I am trying to make sure that what I am doing is the right move.
With a 200 amp panel 10 feet from the point of entry to the house, and a 100 amp sub panel on the other side of the house. I feel that I should have plenty of capacity.
Electrician said I have to keep all the rooms separate which I had been doing. Said we need all smoke detectors on same circuit ( So they all sound if there is an alert?) said to use 14g for this. and said all bedrooms need to be on arc fault.
I started reading code again specifically about arc fault and it looked like everything needs to be on arc fault. If that is the case, why do they sell regular breakers any more?
Oh add to it, he was pushing Generac generator pretty heavy. I was leaning toward a Cummins or Kohler. That all seems more of a Ford / Chevy thing.
This guy was recommended to me years ago when I got power run onto the property. And he installed my temp panel that I used on my camper. Price was fair. He called back on the weekend to check and make sure everything was working properly because we had temps in the teens.
So I had good experience in the past and after yesterday I am not sure. He made some good recommendations but also some that didn’t seem to make sense. And some seemed like they were for his convenience.

 

[WoodChuckDad]

BTW. Thanks to everyone who weighed in on the pump setup. I am going with a cyclestop, just need to figure out what pump and tank size is appropriate.

 

[BigBlue1]

And if you want to use some of the new WiFi electrical switches, you need the neutral in the switch box. Sometimes they will only bring the hot wire to the switch box. Not all white wires will be neutral.

That's a great point and worth emphasizing. If there is a way to wire the light boxes with the neutral wire method it will open up a much wider range of smart light device choices. Might not mean much now, but in 5 years it might really be appreciated.

Rob

 

[EddieWalker]

I never heard that every bedroom needs a GFCI? In every new house that I've been in, they use normal breakers in the box, and then run the line to a GFCI outlet right next to the box and write on the faceplate where it's going. Most homes will have half a dozen of these all lined up. Bathrooms, kitchen, laundry and whatever else has a sink. Adding bedrooms will just add a few more GFCI outlets to it, so it's not a big deal, just something new that I never heard of before.

Wiring is pretty basic in a house. Size of wire determines how many amps you can run through it. If you run too much power through a wire that is too small, it gets hot. This is how electric heaters and electric stoves work. 14 gauge wire is the smallest you can use in a house and it's only good for 15 amps. To save money, some people run 14 gauge wire and a 15 amp breaker for their lights. I think it's a waste of time and money when you already have 12 gauge and a 20 amp breaker for each bedroom. So what if the light in that bedroom goes off if the breaker trips. How often does anybody overload a 20 amp breaker in a bedroom? It never happens. In the kitchen, it could happen all the time, but that's also why you run dedicated 20 amp lines to things like the microwave, garbage disposal, and refrigerator. Then split the kitchen outlets into two banks of 20 amp outlets so your good if you are using a toaster, blender and a coffee pot all at the same time.

Other then the kitchen, there really isn't any other room in the house that sucks up very much power.

 

[BigBlue1]

I never heard that every bedroom needs a GFCI? In every new house that I've been in, they use normal breakers in the box, and then run the line to a GFCI outlet right next to the box and write on the faceplate where it's going. Most homes will have half a dozen of these all lined up. Bathrooms, kitchen, laundry and whatever else has a sink. Adding bedrooms will just add a few more GFCI outlets to it, so it's not a big deal, just something new that I never heard of before.

Arc fault is different than ground fault circuits. Don't know the details myself, but they are two different types of protection.

 

[Valveman]

Hi David,

Can you post the pump details from Aqua Science 15 GPM setup quoted as your well/pump will be at 190', 20 GPM output, and water averages around 70' as I recall?

The Goulds 7GS 3/4HP will easily pump 8-10 GPM, and the 10 GS 3/4HP will average around 10-12 GPM at the depth you are running.

You should look at the pump flow charts and for your application I would not get more than a 3/4 HP 10 GPM (10 GS series).

Definitely get the Cycle Stop Valve to prevent pump cycling and then a 8-12 Gal drawdown bladder tank, otherwise each time you run a faucet or use any water the pump will run - and the start/stops is what kills pump life.

I would keep the system simple and not get into the variable speed pumps.

Carl

Although a CSV will work with any size tank, a 44 gallon size tank to hold 10 gallons of water is not needed. Most CSV systems work fine with a 4.5 gallon size tank that only holds 1 gallon of water. The CSV will let the pump cycle when you use more than 1 GPM, but will not let the pump shut off until you are finished using water. Even then the CSV keeps the pump running for another 30-60 seconds to make sure you are finished with the water before the pump shuts off. With the small tank the pump may cycle once for a toilet flush, but the CSV also makes the pump only cycle once for a long shower or hours of running a sprinkler. Eliminating all the cycles for the long term uses of water, it doesn't hurt if the pump cycles for every toilet flush. It will still be a lot less cycling, and you can save money and space by not purchasing the larger tank. Also, you get strong constant pressure sooner with the smaller tank. Pressure tanks are also no good for storing water, as the pressure could and most likely will be at 41 with a 40/60 switch when the power goes off, and there will be no stored water in any size pressure tank.

 

[Valveman]

I appreciate you weighing in. Since you are here, what pump would you recommend? Provided, that I could find it with the way supplies are going these days. Any particular vendor you would recommend?

Goulds, AY McDonald, Flint and Walling, and several others are good. However, I prefer Grundfos or a copy of, as they have Stainless Steel instead of plastic impellers and also drop amps better than any pump when using a CSV.

 

[Valveman]

Why would anybody want you to remove a bigger wire that's already in place for a smaller wire that cannot handle as much power?

You can never go wrong with a bigger wire, it's just more expensive, but if it's already in place, you can easily run a 15 amp breaker on 12 gauge wire.

Actually wire for a submersible should be as small as possible. Using the longest length of the smallest wire possible for the horsepower pump being used, makes for a reduced voltage soft start. Smaller wire prevents the motor from getting too much current on start up. For a 1HP I would use 250' of #14 wire, even if I have to double up some of it and stuff it down the well. This will cause 36% less torque on startup and still deliver plenty of power for normal running.