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  1. Valveman

    How to Recover a Lost Submersible Well Pump

    Thanks guys. Yes the CSV reduces the amps and uses less energy when pumping lower flow rates. Yes the CSV can work with either large tanks and small pressure tanks. A large pressure tank with a CSV is the best of both worlds for the least number of pump cycles. However, the CSV with a small...
  2. Valveman

    How to Recover a Lost Submersible Well Pump

    I never use torque arrestors. They get stiff over time, and if they were installed tight enough to work, they can stick the pump in the well. Those plastic spacers or stand offs for the wire can also break and wedge between the pump and small casing, sticking the pump in the well. Chaffing...
  3. Valveman

    Irrigation well. Questions about pressure tank and freezing.

    If you want to use hose bibs and have the pump come on automatically when you open a bib, a pressure tank and pressure switch are needed. If the electric pole is at the well you need the pressure switch at the well or you would need to run wire to the house for the pressure switch and back to...
  4. Valveman

    How to Recover a Lost Submersible Well Pump

    Thanks! Yeah the CSV can be the restriction needed for a high water level, but will open up when more water is demanded. Restricting is good for a pump and reduces amperage. But you don't want it restricted when you need more water. The CSV only restricts when needed. But there are lots of...
  5. Valveman

    How to Recover a Lost Submersible Well Pump

    NO matter how deep the pump is installed it is still only lifting from the actual water level. However, many times the water level will start out high and be drawn down all the way to the pump. In these cases you need to size the pump to draw from the depth of the pump setting, and may need to...
  6. Valveman

    How to Recover a Lost Submersible Well Pump

    80% is good! I doubt they will have to cut the pump off, as such a small pump will probably come out when they pull on the pipe. But I know of a well that has 5 pumps underneath the one being used at this time. Best of luck catching the fish! Lol!
  7. Valveman

    How to Recover a Lost Submersible Well Pump

    Yeah getting a wall hook and the tools needed to fish through that 4" liner is going to be a problem. Only thing might save you is if the camera shows a thread or coupling sticking up and not against the well wall. That way they could just send a pipe down and with help from the camera just...
  8. Valveman

    How to Recover a Lost Submersible Well Pump

    Depending on how far it fell, the bottom of the motor could look like a hollow point bullet all mushroomed out. The pipe can also look like a cork screw sometimes. But maybe it didn't fall far or hard. Even so, it will be stuck in the muck and take probably twice as much pull as you have...
  9. Valveman

    Well pump cutoff switches - anti-flooding devices?

    Low pressure curt off switches only work with big leaks. Small leaks will still flood the house. Plus, low pressure switches are a nuisance, as you have to go hold the lever to start the pump again after every power outage or every time the wife turns on one too many hoses. The variable flow...
  10. Valveman

    Small reliable (low maintenance) irrigation system from pond?

    Every tool and box store is selling that pump. It is the only pump I have seen that says, "Not for Continuous Use". What the heck is the duty cycle then? Is it only OK to run for two minutes or ten minutes at a time? Then how long does it need to cool down before restarting. As was said...
  11. Valveman

    Small reliable (low maintenance) irrigation system from pond?

    Here is a picture of some floating submersibles with a control system that sits on the shore.
  12. Valveman

    Small reliable (low maintenance) irrigation system from pond?

    A lot of people irrigate from rivers, ponds, lakes, etc. With drip you have to filter it. With sprinklers the sediment will just be pumped out the sprinklers. Always better to push water than draw water with a pump. So, a submersible well pump would be best. You can use some PVC sell casing...
  13. Valveman

    Well Pressure tank sound like?

    Letting the wife water anyway she wants will cycle the pump to death. Having to replace a pressure switch or losing air from the tank are just the first signs the pump is cycling on/off way too much. Cycling is what kills 99% of all pumps. Pumps are made to run 24/7/365, cycling on and off is...
  14. Valveman

    Water Well Advice ? A/C or Solar ?

    OK thanks. 80,000 gallons at 3.5 GPM is only 380 hours or 15 full days of service over 8 years or 2,920 days. With such a lightly used well it makes sense. I have one I am thinking about trying with batteries (instead of storage) that uses about that same amount of water. I started out...
  15. Valveman

    Water Well Advice ? A/C or Solar ?

    3.5 GPM for 8 hours a day should be about 900,000 gallons a year? Why you say only 60K gallons? Just trying to figure out how much use the pump got in 8 years?
  16. Valveman

    Water Well Advice ? A/C or Solar ?

    You really need a diaphragm pump or helical shaft type pump like the RPS in the above link to make it work at any RPM the sun will give it. The problem with diaphragm type pumps is they need a new diaphragm as often as you need to oil or work on a windmill. In the 60's they had a helical shaft...
  17. Valveman

    Water Well Advice ? A/C or Solar ?

    Windmills are expensive and need yearly maintenance. Climbing the tower to check the oil and pulling the sucker rods and pump barrel is not an easy job either. The only windmill I would ever work on was for my grandfather. He had tied himself about half way up the tower with his belt when his...
  18. Valveman

    Well chlorinators

    I don't like to use Chlorine unless there is absolutely no other way. But they make pellet chlorinators that drop a pellet down the well on a timer connected to the pressure switch. Aerating the water gets rid of a lot of stuff. You can even aerate in the well like when using a Sulfur...
  19. Valveman

    Well pressure Switch question

    Yep! I can tell all of that by looking at that one little picture. I said I wasn't going to help you anymore so this is for the benefit of anyone else reading this thread. When you live on a well, everything you do is dependent on a dependable supply of well water. You can purchase the...
  20. Valveman

    Well pressure Switch question

    This one of those times when I wonder why I care and even try to help. I felt bad that my use of the word "boiler drain" made you think I was talking about a boiler. So, I wanted to reiterate how important it is to have a pressure relief valve on a regular water pressure tank. You are the one...
  21. Valveman

    Well pressure Switch question

    I know you don't want to hear this. But that same iron/mineral that clogged the valve will just as easily clog the pressure switch itself. Just like you saw last time the pressure will increase to as much as the pump can produce. If is doesn't blow a line or your regular "water well pressure...
  22. Valveman

    Well pressure Switch question

    The relief valve on water heaters is usually set for 150 PSI. Most well pumps cannot build 150 PSI and would not be able to utilize that relief valve. But some can build 120-140 PSI, which could blow up a 100 PSI rated water pressure tank. I use a 75 PSI relief valve with any 40/60 pressure...
  23. Valveman

    Well pressure Switch question

    Thanks Egon. I never thought about my use of the word boiler drain instead of faucet would make someone think I was talking about a boiler tank. As you said any pressure tank should have a preset pressure relief valve for safety. I don't understand why someone wouldn't want a 10 dollar...
  24. Valveman

    Well pressure Switch question

    Hope your plumber has good insurance. Have a nice day!
  25. Valveman

    Well pressure Switch question

    I know exactly what kind of tank you have. I have installed a few thousand of them and had a few wiz by my head when they blow up, like in the picture above. All is not good until you install a 75 PSI relief valve.
  26. Valveman

    Well pressure Switch question

    Here is a picture of a cinder block well house where that happened. However, in this case the tank went sideways instead of through the roof. You can see the tank floating in the lake at the very top of the picture. The explosion woke me up from a room about a 1/2 mile away.
  27. Valveman

    Well pressure Switch question

    Even without the ball valve to the pressure switch the nipple itself could clog. This happens all the time. You need a 75 PSI relief valve in place of boiler drain or on a 3/4 tee with the boiler drain. The relief should have been popping off long before your tank pressured up to really high...
  28. Valveman

    Well pressure Switch question

    Pretty easy to see if the points in the pressure switch open up or not. If they are open, the pump should be off, but I would verify with an amp meter.
  29. Valveman

    Well pressure Switch question

    If you are sure the pressure switch points open up at 40 PSI and/or you turn off the breaker to make sure the pump shuts off, the only way pressure can climb is if water is coming from somewhere. Many times I have found a buried pressure tank at the well, which pressures up to 100 when the pump...
  30. Valveman

    Indicator light for 0 pressure well

    Any pressure switch will work. Just set it lower than the switch that runs the pump. If the extra switch sees low pressure and makes the contacts, you can wire a light or anything to the switch to alert the owner. This is better than a light on the main pressure switch, as the light could be...
  31. Valveman

    Compensating for low flow/pressure water supply to outbuilding?

    That Drummond pump has got to be the worst in existence. It is the only pump I know of that says "Not for continuous duty". This means it is very cheaply built and not made to run very much. Adding additional pressure tanks at the end of lines is not good, as friction loss causes them to fill...
  32. Valveman

    Need help. No water.

    Glad you got it working. Everything in a water pump system from the pump, check valve, pressure switch, to the bladder tank is destroyed from the pump cycling on and off. Add a Cycle Stop Valve and you will most likely never have a problem again as long as you live.
  33. Valveman

    Need help. No water.

    If the pump wasn't already off, the pressure would keep climbing and not stop at 40 or 28. I think 40 is just a coincidence and it is turning off because the internal auto re-setting overload in the motor is tripping. Waiting a minute or so and the water just magically coming back on is a...
  34. Valveman

    Need help. No water.

    If the pressure switch is turning the pump on at 20, it should be turning it off at 40. I think the overload in the motor is tripping at like 28 before the tank is full. Then it takes a minute or so for the overload in the motor to cool down and reset. During that time the pressure goes to...
  35. Valveman

    Water Well pump removal ideas

    A three phase motor is actually a little lighter than a single phase. Pump and motor will weight 80# give or take though. Sch 120 PVC pipe full of water weighs 2.2# per foot. 280' would be 616#. With maybe a 100# of wire and fittings your looking at 800# or so. Until it comes up out of the...
  36. Valveman

    Water Well pump removal ideas

    A set of pipe elevators and a pipe holder or slips makes it a lot safer, but takes more height on the boom. With a good rubber jaw pipe holder you can hold the pipe anywhere and not just at the couplings. Then with a couple of short nylon lifting straps you can lift from the pipe as well and...
  37. Valveman

    Water Well pump removal ideas

    With a snatch block hanging below the tripod and the casing being 2' above ground you will need close to a 30' of tripod.
  38. Valveman

    Water Well pump removal ideas

    As an old well driller and pump man myself, I am ashamed of most people in the pump business these days. In my days there where professionals who knew what they were doing, tried to install the best systems, wanted them to be affordable, and to last a long time. These days no one knows...
  39. Valveman

    Got wind turbine blades? Build bridges.

    I guess they could also make caskets out of those wind turbine blades. Archeologist in 10,000 years will be amazed at the preservations of the bodies? Lol! A playground on every block with a bridge to it would still only use a fraction of what needs to be disposed of or recycled.
  40. Valveman

    Got wind turbine blades? Build bridges.

    I think they have like 600 coal fired plants being built in China right now. They need the electricity to manufacture all those batteries and wind turbines to send to the US. Lol!
  41. Valveman

    Ugh!! Water Well contractors...

    Sorry maybe I don't understand the question. But the attached curve shows a constant speed 3,450 RPM pump and how the horsepower is affected by a variable control valve. The pump drops from 10HP load to 3.25HP load without ever changing speed.
  42. Valveman

    Ugh!! Water Well contractors...

    A VFD can burn 43% less energy than a control valve at minimum speed. But 43% of 3.25HP doesn't add up to much. A VFD can burn 12.9% less energy from this 10HP pump than a control valve, which isn't much different either. A VFD burns 5% more energy than a control valve at full pump speed and...
  43. Valveman

    Ugh!! Water Well contractors...

    The 3,450 line is showing the constant speed pump with a variable CSV valve. The horsepower just drops so much you would think the pump speed is reduced, but it is not. That is just the way all centrifugal pumps work. But it is counter intuitive so it is hard for people to understand.
  44. Valveman

    Ugh!! Water Well contractors...

    It's a 10HP motor. So, 1.96HP is 19.6% of max power. 3.25HP is 32.5% of max power. That would be 12.9% difference between valve control or VFD control on this pump at this flow rate. The VFD also has some losses that are not shown on the pump curve. Motors have lower efficiency at reduced...
  45. Valveman

    Ugh!! Water Well contractors...

    It depends on the particular pump and where you look on the curve. At low flow most pumps are 7% tp 10% different between variable speed and a simple valve. At high flow the control valve is usually 3% to 5% better. Overall the difference is probably only "a couple percent". I was using a...
  46. Valveman

    Ugh!! Water Well contractors...

    I have a Grundfos book from 2000 and it doesn't show the MQ. I guess they could have been around for 20 years, as time seems to fly by as I get older. But if you have an MQ that old it is the only one that has lasted that long. Most are short lived. Just search for MQ and you will find...
  47. Valveman

    Ugh!! Water Well contractors...

    Yes! It shows on any pump curve with a horsepower section. The curve I posted has the points marked at 1.96HP for the VFD and 3.25HP without varying the speed and simply using a CSV. Most people do not realize a 10HP centrifugal pump will drop down to only use 3.25HP worth of energy when...
  48. Valveman

    Ugh!! Water Well contractors...

    You have to check the pump curve. This curve shows a pump drawing 10 HP load and producing 100 GPM. But when you slow the pump down with a VFD until it only requires 2HP energy, it is only pumping 8 GPM. The pump is much less efficient when the speed is reduced. However, you should notice...
  49. Valveman

    Ugh!! Water Well contractors...

    Grundfos makes really good jet pumps. But they have only been making the SCALA a few years, and the MQ hasn't been around that long either. Which pump do you have?
  50. Valveman

    Ugh!! Water Well contractors...

    That is absolutely correct! But it is the same thing with a VFD. Restricting or slowing a 1HP pump down until it only uses 0.5HP energy would only be producing about 0.1HP worth of water. Varying the pump speed of a 1HP down to 1/2HP uses at least 500% more energy than a 1/2HP pump running at...
 
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