1973 Ford 4000 Voltage Regulator Issue

   / 1973 Ford 4000 Voltage Regulator Issue #1  

deere5105

Veteran Member
Joined
May 6, 2009
Messages
1,048
Location
South Mississippi
Tractor
2008 John Deere 5303 MFWD
We noticed recently that the battery light on the dash started coming on periodically. After doing some reading we came across a recommended test for the regulator. The test stated that peak operating voltage when running should not exceed 14.5V. Using a volt meter I measured approximately 12.8V across the positive and negative posts with the ignition off. With throttle set with engine RPM’s at 1800 the voltage climbed as high as 16.5V before I shut the tractor down.

If recommended test for regulator is correct then it seems obvious to me that we have a faulty regulator. I know there are still a lot of old Ford tractors out there and a lot of knowledgeable operators. Am I missing anything?
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   / 1973 Ford 4000 Voltage Regulator Issue
  • Thread Starter
#2  
Picked up new regulator and seem to be getting the same voltage readings as with the original regulator. Battery light seems to be going off now when RPM’s at operating speed. Was sporadic off and on with original. Time will tell if new one is any different.
 
   / 1973 Ford 4000 Voltage Regulator Issue #3  
You have some crusty looking grounds near the regulator. Did you clean them up ?

Also did you clean up the connectors that plug into the regulator?
 
   / 1973 Ford 4000 Voltage Regulator Issue #4  
My old Ford shop manuals showed how to adjust the voltage on generator voltage regulators. As contacts wore they required adjustments. Had slots where a flat screwdriver could gently pry.
Worn brushes another cause.
Poor or dirty connections increase resistance and lower voltage.
 
   / 1973 Ford 4000 Voltage Regulator Issue #5  
Picked up new regulator and seem to be getting the same voltage readings as with the original regulator. Battery light seems to be going off now when RPM’s at operating speed. Was sporadic off and on with original. Time will tell if new one is any different.
Can assume that the battery is in good shape and there are no other loads on the battery?
 
   / 1973 Ford 4000 Voltage Regulator Issue #6  
If I saw those readings taken both static and running my first thought would be that the battery is good. Now I need to check that I am not reading AC when I measure running. If that 16.5 is DC - as it should be - then the next thought is one of 3 things:
Either there is a faulty charge light relay in the voltage regulator.
Or there is a faulty corroded ground connection somewhere - probably battery to frame, but maybe VR to frame.
Thirdly, it is possible that voltage can be fine or a little high and there still not be much amperage passing into the charge circuit. So I'm hoping there is a dash ammeter and it is showing positive charge.

If so, then 16.5 v isn't high enough to harm the battery if it is in good shape. I've seen vrs not regulate until they hit 18 volts. So I'm back to poor grounds or the old VR regulator has a bad relay that turns on the dash light.
At this point I'd keep the new VR and go after the frame grounds.
luck,
rScotty
 
   / 1973 Ford 4000 Voltage Regulator Issue
  • Thread Starter
#7  
Appreciate the feedback.

I am not close to the tractor right now. I understand today starting out battery showed around 12.8 not running. At 1800 RPM showing around 16.5. After hours of bush hogging light came on. Little later when back around volt meter with charge light on and tractor running meter showed 12.4. That tells me at that time it wasn’t charging.

I believe there is both a regulator and a generator and the generator handles the charging. I believe the other light, oil pressure, also came on and began to flicker at idle.

Any of this point to anything or still possibly a ground connection issue?
 
   / 1973 Ford 4000 Voltage Regulator Issue #8  
Appreciate the feedback.

I am not close to the tractor right now. I understand today starting out battery showed around 12.8 not running. At 1800 RPM showing around 16.5. After hours of bush hogging light came on. Little later when back around volt meter with charge light on and tractor running meter showed 12.4. That tells me at that time it wasn’t charging.

I believe there is both a regulator and a generator and the generator handles the charging. I believe the other light, oil pressure, also came on and began to flicker at idle.

Any of this point to anything or still possibly a ground connection issue?

OK. Well, that's new info you and yes it does change things. Glad you were able to get that measurement. 12.4 volts tells us that the battery is probably good and that it hasn't been getting the charge it was expecting. The fact that it happened after some use and heat is good info - but I'm not sure quite what to do with it until we have a bit more information.

There are two possible culprits that are real heat sensitive and both are in the generator or alternator (which one do you have?) they are NOT in the Voltage Regulator. I'm going there because what you are describing makes me think generator/alternator instead of voltage regulator.

If your old Ford has a generator, then heat after a few hours causes the pick up brushes in the generator to begin to bounce on the commutator which results in a lower voltage with an AC component. That type electricity won't charge the battery.

If your old Ford has an alternator, same problem, but in an alternator it is likely that heat affects the diode plate and causes a diode to pass current both ways.That also lets an AC signal through instead of converting it to DC. The battery cannot use AC for charging.

Both of these are relatively easy fixes if you want to keep the tractor near stock. This is when I'd take the generator or alternator down to the auto electric shop for a test and a rebuild. Rebuild your good old one. It is far better to rebuild the old one than than to buy some cheap chinese rebuilt one.

However, a workable alternative is to just scrap the old generator and voltage regulator both and replace them with any one of a dozen new one-wire combination alternator with VR built in. You simply choose one that will bolt up to your esisting mount and drive with your existing fan belt. Size it roughly the same. The single output wire goes to your battery. And you are done.

Ive heard that Datsun and Toyota single wire one-wire alternators are good ones and inexpensive. Sorry I don't have a part number. Maybe someone else has done this to their Ford.

Or just rebuild the old one. It has experience..... Oh, on the grounding. Probably not the problem, but anyone with good sense stays on top on grounding issues. They are always the number 1 culprit.
luck,
rScotty
 
   / 1973 Ford 4000 Voltage Regulator Issue
  • Thread Starter
#9  
This tractor has a generator. We have a good local starter/alternator repair shop. Thanks for the feedback!
 
   / 1973 Ford 4000 Voltage Regulator Issue #10  
This tractor has a generator. We have a good local starter/alternator repair shop. Thanks for the feedback!

You are lucky to have a good shop like that. We had one here, but our local guy retired about 5 years ago and nobody younger is interested in doing repair work. His was a one-man shop for the last 40 years.

Industry is getting away from designing things to be repairable, and that means the era of home mechanics is drawing to a close. My nephews don't even have hand tools. Well, one does but his parents discourage him.
I do see some guys - mostly old guys - doing hobby rebuilds on vintage stuff. That's encouraging, maybe the old skills won't completely die out.

rScotty
 
 
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