2005/5600 ToolCat (B) Series Rear Drive?

[PatScrum]

A friend and I have been racking our brains over a rear drive problem on my ToolCat serial number 424711882, so I know it is a B series. Before I got it, they took it to a dealer where they replaced the hydraulic filters and both rear motors. When it was returned it ran fine for roughly 100 hours. After investing the money they did into the Tool Cat the person sold it to me. They were happy to see it go after battling with it. The manual for the filters says 50 hours when you first get the machine then 250 hours there after. So, the filters should have roughly 150 hours to go. The fluid does have a very slight grey tint to it. (concerning yes)

The symptoms are as such, It will intermittently lock the rear wheels up and code 40-51. When it allows the machine to move without coding, you can tell the rear wheels have a drag to them. When you turn the steering (in two wheel steer) it will lock up the inside rear wheel but allow the rear outside wheel to spin free but in a reverse direction. To add a bit of confusion to the problem, rarely it will work perfectly fine for at most 5 minutes then code 40-51 and back to the cycle of problems again. We also did the 4 wheel alignment. Put it in 4 wheel steer and get the green light for the rear. Put it in 2 wheel steer and get the light. Then go forward about 6 feet then go backwards. It took several attempts to complete as the code kept stopping the machine do to the wheel drag.

We've tested the wiring through the harness, using the wiring diagram from the book. We've traced all the hydraulic lines from the breaking system. It is a perplexing way to do the breaks/differential lock. The differential lock solenoid is the Positive pressure and there's a return line going to a break solenoid labeled as the Brake. This is from the hydraulic schematic in the manual. Both solenoids test good with an oms meter.

A question for the hydraulics, how would we test the line pressure to the rear? The book only describes a flow meter. Do we have to put a T in the line and pressure test it? We couldn't find a port to directly connect to.

I'm thinking the differential lock it not happy, while my buddy is thinking the brake system isn't happy. Either way before we tackle this again next weekend I was hoping someone might have some ideas. I have to say this machine is designed in a bizarre way. The manual is a train wreck. It tells you to go to a page, that page say go to this page, then to that page. 2 to 3 hops around the book you get to where you want to be. Problem for me is i read every page so it's several minutes before I land on the target.

Thank you for any input!

 

[laurencen]

the wheel turning in reverse is likely the result of the differential and the inner wheel locked, the diff lock is only the rear axle and requires hydraulic pressure to activate, Im guessing this is the solid axle on a B series

 

[PatScrum]

So, with the help from a dealer we found the problem. At the center of the cab, under the ToolCat there's a second Hydraulic Pump. The Code 50-41 is a signal loss to the PWM Solenoid. Before tracing wires we disconnected the clip on both solenoids. One was soaked in oil dripping onto it. We cleaned it out and put some oxide spray on each side of the clips. After letting them dry for a bit we reattached them. Problem is gone. We used the ToolCat for 12 straight hours with no sign of the problem coming back. Oh, according to the dealer you can jump the wired from the computer back to the solenoid if the clips are good. This will test if it is a bad wire. If it is OK I can upload documentation printed from the updated manual and schematic for this error code. Last updated 7/22/20.

 

[ruffdog]

Thanks for the update!

 

[Steiner5]

Pat,

I have the same model Toolcat. I already have the manuals. Can you tell me what page it is on? Also, any chance you took a picture of the solenoid and the connectors you were referring too. I'm having a slightly different problem with mine but it is worth checking those connectors.

Thanks...
Rick

 

[PatScrum]

Well, our situation changed a bit. We began getting code 50-39 (Rear PWM Solenoid Error). After letting it sit for 5 to 10 minutes it would run fine for roughly 30 minutes. After doing that repeatedly a few times, the code 50-41 (Rear PMW Solenoid No Signal) showed it's ugly head again. So, we put our heads together and decided to try and reproduce the same scenario. We disconnected the clips again and cleaned them and applied the dielectric spray, allowing it to set up a minute or two. It ran fine again for a day 1/2 a little over 18 hours (we know this by the job timer that we reset to 0). Sure enough, code 50-39. Again, letting it sit 10 - 15 minutes the 50-39 returns after roughly 30 minutes. And yet again, doing that a few times 50-41.

Applying a bit of logic at that point, we kept an Ohms meter in the cab. When 50-39 hit I immediately hopped out and checked the Rear PWM Valve (correct Ohms is 2.4 / +- 10%). Don't confuse the proper Homs with the FWD and REV Solenoids! Those 2 Solenoids should read 5.5 +/- %10 Homs. Unfortunately you can not test for voltage. Where the rest of the world simply supplies current to a solenoid, Bobcat sends pulses. All you'll get from Volts is a Ping-Pong match between 0 and some other voltage(s).
So, in our case the Rear PWM Valve was indeed throwing an error as it was bad. The 50-41 eventually came from the heat being push to the clip by the solenoid by repeating the 50-39 with no time for the solenoid to completely cool. $300 later (roughly) for a new solenoid and 2 full days of working it, there are no old/new codes. It may take more time working it. But since this repair we've moved around 12 tons of dirt and quickly leveling it as we dumped it. We did this strictly with the Toolcat trying to get codes to pop up. We alternated each other so the machine didn't stop.

To help locate the solenoid we delt with, It's under the Toolcat right where the passenger seat is. Honestly you can't miss it. Use an Homs meter on all the solenoids. There should be 3. One is on the PWM and 2 to the side (they control the forward and reverse to the rear). The Identical set up for the front drive is under the Driver side. You can in theory swap the solenoids around and move the problem to check the solenoids. If you clean up the connector and get it to show 50-39 alone that's the rear. If you get a different code after you swap the solenoids, BINGO. If you're still showing 50-41 after cleaning the connectors, check for continuity from the pins off the computer clip to the rear PWM. Pins 39 and 9 (Rear PWM Solenoid). If you show continuity then do pins 43 and 42 (Rear Reverse Solenoid). last but not least do pins 44 and 45 (Rear Forward Solenoid). Do this from the clip off the computer! You don't want to do it from the clips. Doing it from the clips will show False Positives. (I'll save you some time there lol, lesson learned). I haven't seen an admin of the forums say it was O.K to upload documentation. I would like to stay a member and not get into some kind of trouble by posting documents. Honestly the wiring diagram is the same. All the new documentation states is; code 50-41 means the Rear PWM Solenoid has no signal. All it lists for components is the Solenoid. Possible causes it lists I've stated in this post. The only one I hadn't is checking the grounds for wires 2130 and 4130. Again, these are on the original diagram. The only change they have hear just tells you specifically what to check. The original just told you what the code meant, not how to properly check it. In any event, if an admin gives the OK i'll upload them.

 

[PatScrum]

It's been a long Journey with this thing. But we nailed it finally. As they say, it's the little things the get ya, it boiled down to a connector pin. Under the cover for the controls between the driver and passenger, there's a few connection clips. It was almost unnoticeable but a pin was pushed in on the male side of a clip. We pushed the pin out the end and reshaped the tongue that snaps in the clip. Pushed it back in and reconnected the clip. It's been a year without any problem what so ever. It was a real pain but well worth it. The ToolCat runs like a champ. We got a ton of free repairs from the previous owner that gave up and walked away. Yeah, for what we paid for it, the previous repairs were free. Even Bobcat gave up on it. They replaced the entire harness. Unfortunate for the owner and fortunate for us, they rushed and jammed a pin back causing intermittent connections. I would recommend taking some time on those clips and inspecting them carefully. This is SOLVED for us. I hope it helps people out.

 

[ruffdog]

Thanks for the update!

 

[laurencen]

years ago my 2005 series A would not engage the diff lock, it was a issue when I purchased it the previous owner had no luck with the dealer and lived with it, when the switch was activated the light iluminated but not engaged, after a few hours searching turned oit the switch has a 6 pin connector, one of the spades had bent and not engaging the connector, so simple but a pain to find, the dealer figured it was the harness in the end and after seeing the cost to replace the owner chose to sell it