3pt hitch towable 1,5yds dirt pan

   #1  

0dude

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i have looked at the options for rebuilding the face of one of my pond dams and with my 32hp and 55hp tractors it looks like my best answer would be a 3pt hitch towable 1,5+yds dirt pan with closable front. The cost of new unit $5000 to $9000 is beyond my budget at this time. The only used unit I have found has not been built since 2000, thus no spare parts available and still priced at $2800. Any suggestions?
 
   #2  

kneedeep

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Found this in Batesville, MS equipment dealer for $4100. If you were to buy one, new or used, I would be happy to purchase it for a fair price after you finish with it!
After I finish, I would resell to someone for fair market value. It would really help us who only need something like this for a small project!
Just a thought:thumbsup:

Dirt Pan.jpg
 
   #3  

Ken45101

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Do those really work on a typical utility tractor? I wonder if you will have enough traction to pull it through hard ground. I can see it working on loose dirt or loose sand, but with the dirt I have here, I have my doubts. YMMV.
 
   #4  

kneedeep

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It has a cutting edge like a box blade and it just picks up the dirt to move rather than drag it like a BB would.

Even if the ground had to be ripped or plowed to loosen, it would move a lot more dirt than a BB

:2cents:
 
   #6  

DJ54

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I've got small Overland scraper, handiest thing since sliced bread..!! I believe it is rated at 1 1/2 yd. I have pulled it with as little as my Super C Farmall, and as much as my Massey 180. With the Super C it was a down hill cut, in dry shaley clay. Didn't cut much at a time, but it moved some dirt in short order.

I widened the dam on my pond about 15 years ago with it. Put the subsoiler on the Super C, and pre-ripped about a foot deep. At that time pulled it with my Farmall M, with 3pt. Had to hang a 100 lb wheel weight out on the nose, and still had to watch if it hooked in too much, catching a rock, etc.. It would pull the front wheels off the ground. I have done that several times with the 180. There is no problem with having enough traction with the 3 pt. hookup drawbar. Draft from the cut will hold you down. You don't want to take too deep of a cut at a time anyway. Never have I pulled it at over half throttle, in low gear. Better to have it kill the tractor, then have it come back over on you.

The ones with the trucks under the front of them would require a lot of wheel weight to pull them, not necessarily HP. A buddy of mine I worked with, helped his Grandfater when younger. They had a Ford 5000 with I believe he said 4 sets of rear wheel weights on the tractor, to pull a 2 yd. scraper.

DSC01007[1].JPG
 
   #7  

swick1

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What makes these scrapers better than a loader other than ease of use? Are they faster?
 
   #9  

DJ54

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You can also cut a slope on a knob piece of ground, if you stage your cuts. Make a full cut pass, skip about 2/3 of the width of your scraper, then make another full cut pass. Come back and pick up the center part you skipped, making it a sloped cut.

Mine has notch in the dump frame to hold the bowl at the half dump position, so as to grade. I've also used it to grade my driveway, knocking out the center hump, spreading it in the wheel tracks.
 

DJ54

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And looking for one using several key words helps. Most call them scrapers, some pans. When in the Operating Engineer's Apprenticeship program many moons ago, the instructor told us, " You fry eggs in a pan, you move dirt with a scraper."

You can do a search using the Claz ad like below. If you enter scraper, you will get tons of hits, but look what I found at the bottom link..!! I do realize it is a good ways from you, but then there are places where you can look for truckers looking for some sort of load back east. And for the price he is asking, and the price of the scraper you found, there is some room for shipping costs.

Classifieds - Claz.org

3 pt. Hyd. Earthmoving Scraper 5ft. Wide Ad 26490944
 

IndyIan

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A big box blade will hold nearly a yard and has a few more uses, but at some volume of dirt and distance it doesn't make sense anymore. I found doing 40-50 yard pulls with my box blade probably about as far you would go while trying to be "efficient". I liked it better than the loader as it did carry more and its faster to load.
 

gabby

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If you have a well matched tractor and pan you can load it to overflowing in about 30 seconds without bogging the tractor. With too little hp your tractor strains and loses traction and you can't fill the pan. The dirt needs to be tight and firm so it will keep pushing up through the dirt already in the pan. The good old 80/20 rule sets in when the pan starts to get full. The last 20 percent can take 80 percent of the effort required to fill the pan.
 

MESSMAKER

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I pan in construction is usually pushed with a bulldozer to load it most of the time. I think it might work, but it has the possibility of being frustrating.
 

DJ54

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Depends on the dirt you're loading. Topsoil seems to be the hardest to load. If you pre-rip with a subsoiler, just do it every few feet apart, and that will allow enough crowd to load it, plus still give you solid ground for traction. If a person turns it over with a plow to loosen, start at the far end of the cut, and load a short section where the tractor wheels are on undisturbed ground. I prefer the ripped earth(clay), as it breaks up somewhat, and spreads better. Plowed ground may let it dip below the bottom of the furrows, and pick up a huge cube, and may not spread as well. That's the only real problem I see with the one attaching directly to the 3 pt. arms. The ones with the trucks under the front give you a lot more control of the cutting edge, and easier to feather the cut.

I'm guessing most of these smaller scrapers roll over to dump, as mine does. MUCH nicer to have the ejector like on the big ones. They do a much better job of spreading/grading the dirt.
 

swick1

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I'm surprised these pans don't have teeth!
 

Opti-Mist

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I have a 6-ft wide, 1 or 1-1/2 yard Soilmover pan scraper with mechanical dump. At full dump it can be used to spread and at half-dump it can be used to cut and spread. It works worst in soft sand. Otherwise it works quite well. I've used it to build up roads and just plain spread dirt. It is fitted with scarifier attaching lugs but I've not needed to use scarifiers (yet). This has been towed with a 28 pto hp tractor, 4WD, with no issues. I'm no longer needing it so it would be available if the distance is not too discouraging. I bought it new but would sell it at a decent for you price. It is located in extreme NE Michigan, but not accessible until next spring.
 

texasjohn

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I just finished using a 5 yard pan scraper with hydraulic dump bed. Rowse, had 2 wheels up front for steering and support. It was all my 50 horse 4wd tractor could handle...and then I mostly got 3/4 of the bucket full before no more would enter. Rented it from Soil Conservation District..$60 a day...would have been a great deal if I had 100 horse tractor...but real struggle with mine and took a long time to get anything done. I have tight black clay soil...right kind for this scraper, just not enough hp.
 

kneedeep

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I just finished using a 5 yard pan scraper with hydraulic dump bed. Rowse, had 2 wheels up front for steering and support. It was all my 50 horse 4wd tractor could handle...and then I mostly got 3/4 of the bucket full before no more would enter. Rented it from Soil Conservation District..$60 a day...would have been a great deal if I had 100 horse tractor...but real struggle with mine and took a long time to get anything done. I have tight black clay soil...right kind for this scraper, just not enough hp.

That is a good deal- somebody up your way should buy it and after completing their work pass it on down towards Dixie where I can use it and pass it on!!
 

texasjohn

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Well, I know you are in the heart of Dixie and much of the world is North...but there are a few of us in Texas that kinda think we're a little South of you. :laughing:
So, if you're ever down my way, come by and see me.

Meanwhile, the Soil Conservation District owns the scraper and rents it out to local members on a daily basis. It stays rather busy! But, I fear that it would not suit a lot of TBNers...50hp 4wd is absolute minimum to get anything useful done....something like 100 hp is what is recommended for it. There are a number of members right at 50 hp and it gets thinner as you approach 100 hp...a few are there, just not many. It's another example where more hp is better:thumbsup:

That is a good deal- somebody up your way should buy it and after completing their work pass it on down towards Dixie where I can use it and pass it on!!
 

Verticaltrx

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Well, I know you are in the heart of Dixie and much of the world is North...but there are a few of us in Texas that kinda think we're a little South of you. :laughing:
So, if you're ever down my way, come by and see me.

Meanwhile, the Soil Conservation District owns the scraper and rents it out to local members on a daily basis. It stays rather busy! But, I fear that it would not suit a lot of TBNers...50hp 4wd is absolute minimum to get anything useful done....something like 100 hp is what is recommended for it. There are a number of members right at 50 hp and it gets thinner as you approach 100 hp...a few are there, just not many. It's another example where more hp is better:thumbsup:

Based on his comments, I think he quoted the wrong post.

Regardless, a 5 yd scraper is a pretty good pull for even a 100hp tractor. For a big project I'd want about 150hp on it. I've used one behind an Allis Chalmers 8050 (150hp 4wd) and it was a pretty good match. That tractor also had full power-shift which is a really nice thing for running a scraper. It pulled it with enough authority to fill it to the brim then take it along at a good pace to where we were spreading the spoils. Another thing you have to look at, a 5yd scraper full of dirt is going to weigh 12,000-15,000lbs or more. That takes a good size tractor to control it when you're on the move.

As for the small scrapers the OP was talking about, I too would love to get one some day. I think for my 5203 Deere even a 5 foot, 1yd model would be all I'd want. It comes to a point where the bigger scraper, with more capacity, actually moves less dirt if you don't have the right tractor in front of it. These units look pretty nice, I think they start at about $5K though: Hoelscher DB scraper
 
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texasjohn

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Well, you're likely correct re quoted post vs response.

And, you're making me feel a little better regarding how my Grand L 5030 performed with the scraper.
I carried the FEL with about a struck load of dirt...to give maximum traction to front tires.
Front tires were new.
I added 280 lbs to 3ph for more rear traction...rear tires are loaded.
I always engaged the rear wheel lock.
I used 4wd and low range...with HST
Scraper was pin hitch tongue pull with 2 front steering/support tires and 2 rear tires
I feathered the blade up and down hydraulically, seeking to maintain forward motion just at the point of losing traction.
When traction was lost, I would raise the blade ever so slightly to reduce the drag and return to forward motion.
I ran 2600 RPMS and all 4 wheels were pulling/slipping as I sought to apply all 50 hp to the ground.
I would stop the pull when I judged that I had captured all the dirt that I could for that pull and carefully raised the bucket so the front closure would come down and capture as much dirt as possible.

Best pull was about a 95% struck bucket full.
Typical pull was about 2/3 of a bucket full.
I never got a pull where the dirt bubbled up and fell off the edges, as I saw done on U TUBE.
Often, perhaps because of terrain, one side of the edge would catch and fill one side of the bucket while the opposite side of the bucket would have only a little in it.

I certainly would agree that a 150 hp tractor would be balanced match for the scraper, allowing a full 5 yards every time.
 

kneedeep

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texasjohn,
sounds to me like you are a skilled tractor operator to pull a 5 YD scraper with a 50HP tractor :dumptruck:

Seems to me that if the equipment is operated with skill and finese and not ran like a bull in a china shop anything is possible! I am sure not everyone could do what you did succesfully-
I, Sir, am impressed :applause:
 

texasjohn

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A scraper, such as I used, has a bucket/tub to hold the dirt that is scraped up. Under ideal conditions, the tractor has sufficient hp to pull the scraper along until the entire bucket is full, has bubbled up and is overflowing on all sides(absolute max load). At this point, the hydraulics are operated and the plane lifts off the ground and the movable front side comes down covering the plane. At this point, the device has turned into a dirt trailer completely full. It is towed at some speed to the spoil site and it tips up to dump the dirt...with experience, the dirt can be spread rather evenly in a strip the width of the device and just a few inches thick (no BIG mounds).

I assume that by loader you mean a front end loader bucket...if so, then the scraper advantage is that it carries far more dirt in one load than can be carried in the front bucket.
 

texasjohn

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You're too kind...it was my little Kubota 5030 that did all the work! Here are a couple of photos.

One of the more successful pulls I had
PA280329.jpg
The whole rig
PA280330.jpg
weights on 3ph
PA280335.jpg
dig area, rig in distance in front of existing dirt tank (been in a drought)
PA290349.jpg
spoil area above spillway water line
PA290337.jpg

texasjohn,
sounds to me like you are a skilled tractor operator to pull a 5 YD scraper with a 50HP tractor :dumptruck:

Seems to me that if the equipment is operated with skill and finese and not ran like a bull in a china shop anything is possible! I am sure not everyone could do what you did succesfully-
I, Sir, am impressed :applause:
 

kneedeep

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Kind is stretching it a bit- I certainly am impressed with that tractor/pan operation! That black Texas soil looks like my MS Delta soil. Good to work in when dry and sticks like a bad nickname from High school when wet!
 
   #29  

texasjohn

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Proper name for the soil is Houston Black Clay...people call it "gumbo" for short...and, yes, when wet you get stuck and it can't be worked at all. Soil conditions were right...in some of the photos you can see where the blade bit in a bit, then released, then bit in again. We've had only one runoff rain this year...early spring...area I dug out was under about a foot of water then. It'll be 6 feet or so next time we get runoff to fill the tank.
 
 
 
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