4210 No Power revisited

[bradc]

Ontrac Equipment made a service call to inspect my tractor 2 weeks ago and could not find any reason for the lack of power. While the technician felt it was "down on power a bit" he could offer no suggestions after spending over an hour inspecting the tractor. (In an earlier post I asked everyones opinion on the power of a 4210 , I just traded my 4110 and my new 4210 felt doggy in comparison , and would not pull operating rpm in high range, no load. in fact it would almost stall if you tried).
He asked me to put a few more hours on it and I did , it now has 10 hours and this weekend here in Upstate NY I finally had enough snow to try the blower (4 inches max).
In A (low) range , the tractor will not hold operating rpm even if run at wide open throttle when blowing the snow, I have to back off the e-hydro pedal to maintain rpm. Rotataing the chute even taxed the motot.... So much for it being "a bit down on power".
Additionally I have an new (yea!) issue with PTO engagement, the light comes on (on the fender and dash) showing engagement but the mid-pto shaft does not turn. It takes 7-10 times of starting the tractor and shutting off the tractor to finally have it decide to engage...
After zero problems with my 4110, this is a little discouraging.
However , I am working with what I would call the cream of the crop as far as dealers go , I have dealt with most JD dealers in upstate and Western Ny and Ontrac in Brockport has gone way above and beyond in every dealing I have had with them. Its rare I compliment anyone but they really are great to work with, from sales to parts and service.
They are picking it up tomorrow , we'll see what they find. My best guess is an injector pump issue , perhaps out of time? The tractor runs like a swiss watch with no smoke so its hard to figure..
Anyone with insight please feel free to inject some wisdom!
Brad /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

 

[jcmseven]

Brad,
I do not know how the other forum members feel about this issue, but I understand your problem. My 4310 has 4 additional HP over your 4210 and I have the same questions. I went from a 595, and while I realize we are comparing apples to oranges, I have thought the 4310 I bought is slightly underpowered also. Like you, I may have been spoiled by the high power-weight ratio. My 4310 will move a house in "a" range and does well in low speed situations, but labors mightily on long climbs and in higher speed situations. I have a brand new heavy boom mounted 6' front blade for snow removal. I am somewhat concerned the tractor may not be able to plow up some of the hills of my driveway, with its 4000+ pounds of gross weight with the blade. My dealer said he ran it in "a" range going up the hill delivering it to my house! (No snow yet). I must say, after 35 hours of use, it clearly is running some better, and after a brake adjustment, my disappointment initially has lessened. I still find myself wondering where the extra gear might be in some circumstances. Many opinions about the 4210 exist, some people think they are fine and some are disappointed with the power output. My opinion, and that of some I know who work regularly with John Deere machinery, is that the 4210 is underpowered for its size, especially for PTO work. The harsh reality is that it just may not do much better. Most pro's say one should not give up on the power output until at least the break-in (50 hour) period is up, and likely beyond then: 100 hours? I cannot see, however, that this would make a miraculous difference. Our local hospital has a 4410, 4710 and two 4210's that are used on the grounds. The head groundskeeper states he only uses the 4210 for light duty work, due to its power limitations. Those two tractors both have over 500 hours on them. (He also complains some about the 4410, though, although less). I am hoping that the new 3000 series will offer a more favorable power/weight ratio and perhaps better PTO power. I will take a serious look at them, even though I do like my 4310. Good luck, and perhaps the new models will be for review soon for consideration.

John M.

 

[timb]

Brad - is your dealer going to put your tractor on a PTO dyno as had been suggested by several folks earlier? That's really the only way you're going to tell if the engine power is up to spec.

 

[dmp437]

Is LoadMatch on or off when the engine is bogging?


From the JD Service Manual:

Low Engine Output
-Fuel Filter Clogged-replace fuel filter
-Air entering fuel system-check and repair fuel supply system
-Clogged or cracked fuel lines-clean or replace fuel lines
-Improper intake or exhaust valve clearance-adjust valve clearance
-Compression leakage from valve seat-grind valve seat, regrind valves
-Seized intake/exhaust valve-replace valve and check valve guide
-Leaking cylinder head gasket-replace head gasket
-Crankshaft pin or bearing worn-regrind crank and replace bearings
-Improper engine oil vicosity/type-change oil & filter
-Wrong type of fuel-drain and replace fuel
-Fuel volume to injection pump low-check or replace fuel transfer pump

As to the PTO problem....

 

[bradc]

Thanks for the reply , LoadMatch helps the situation , turning it off makes it 100 times worse. But even with loadmatch on it still bogs. It is so strange , this engine runs so smooth , juts has no guts. They picked it up today , I'll post when they give me an update.
I am aware of the troubleshooting guide.....at 9.8 hours I would hope nothing like that is wrong....we will see.

 

[bradc]

Well good news I guess...

The lack of power issue I have is considered normal , the dealer had a new 4210 and they "lined em up" haha. In all instances in side by side comparisons my tractor had more guts and pulled better. That being said , this tractor as designed is underpowered in my estimation. But as long as it can do the driveway and the fel works and it mows I'll be happy but 28 hp is just not enough for the weight of this tractor, plain and simple. Live and learn.
The pto problem was a burr on one of the solenoids, simple fix and all set to go.
Dealer is dropping it off tomorrow and we should have snow this weekend so we will see how she goes.
The only consolation is the suspension seat is so dang comfortable compared to my 4110 that I actually think I can live with the low power... /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif

Brad

 

[garchib]

.......while I am sorry for what you have gone through, on a personal note, this is the most useful thread for me that I have seen. I have a 4100 HST and I love it, but I too was enamored with the seat on the larger tractor(s) /forums/images/graemlins/grin.gif Now I am having second thoughts up upgrading for comfort alone, as I would rather keep my current tractor, as I have a lot of hills in my yard. Best of luck to you.

 

[JETRO]

bradc, Have you asked your dealer if they would adjust your fuel pump? It is a very quick and easy way to gain some power out of a diesel engine. Both timing & fuel flow are easily adjusted. For small gains a small adjustment to fuel flow is all that is needed. The down sides are your tractor may smoke a little more, and if you get carried away with how much extra fuel you give it your exhaust temps. will rise to much under sustained high loads. Also some dealers may shy away from this. I have two Deeres ( 870 & 4610) that I have done this to, both have since aquired hundreds of hours with no problem to either. I'm very supprised that I've not seen any post on modifing tractor engines. Something so easy to do cost nothing with such large gains. /forums/images/graemlins/cool.gif

 

[GoodGuy]

Brad...
As I replied earlier, I think my 4210 is ok but I would suggest that the dealer "tune" your tractor on a PTO Dyno to make sure that everything is 100%. No offence to the dealer but lining up 2 tractors against each other isn't what I consider reliable diagnosis; insist on a dyno check & tune. Just my 2 cents
Eric

 

[ethicsg]

Ontrac Equipment made a service call to inspect my tractor 2 weeks ago and could not find any reason for the lack of power. While the technician felt it was "down on power a bit" he could offer no suggestions after spending over an hour inspecting the tractor. (In an earlier post I asked everyones opinion on the power of a 4210 , I just traded my 4110 and my new 4210 felt doggy in comparison , and would not pull operating rpm in high range, no load. in fact it would almost stall if you tried).
He asked me to put a few more hours on it and I did , it now has 10 hours and this weekend here in Upstate NY I finally had enough snow to try the blower (4 inches max).
In A (low) range , the tractor will not hold operating rpm even if run at wide open throttle when blowing the snow, I have to back off the e-hydro pedal to maintain rpm. Rotataing the chute even taxed the motot.... So much for it being "a bit down on power".
Additionally I have an new (yea!) issue with PTO engagement, the light comes on (on the fender and dash) showing engagement but the mid-pto shaft does not turn. It takes 7-10 times of starting the tractor and shutting off the tractor to finally have it decide to engage...
After zero problems with my 4110, this is a little discouraging.
However , I am working with what I would call the cream of the crop as far as dealers go , I have dealt with most JD dealers in upstate and Western Ny and Ontrac in Brockport has gone way above and beyond in every dealing I have had with them. Its rare I compliment anyone but they really are great to work with, from sales to parts and service.
They are picking it up tomorrow , we'll see what they find. My best guess is an injector pump issue , perhaps out of time? The tractor runs like a swiss watch with no smoke so its hard to figure..
Anyone with insight please feel free to inject some wisdom!
Brad /forums/images/graemlins/confused.gif

Just had a similar problem. Mine was the brakes were not releasing. The spring, part number LVU11264 was broken and the lever arm was seized. Hammer on it and sprayed it with penetrating oil and got it free. Needs new springs to get it to release the brakes properly. This video helped