555 no fuel at injectors

[careyo63]

How do you chk. for a clogged up Fuel injector. Just Curious? I Know I look for the spray to come out. Make a tester not all that much to it BTDT. Decades ago!!

 

[TractorTech]

I remove the injector and hook it up to the line. However, if this is in reference to the OPs post, he hasn't been able to get diesel up too the injectors yet!

 

[RayIN]

No fire. I was told they last ran it in October/November and now they have a much newer unit on site so they don’t need this one. Is there a way to prime the injectors without turning the engine over?…some sort of manual method? It’s very cold here and turn the motor over constantly is tough on the battery and starter.

Engine must be cranked for this:
Crack open each fuel line at each injecter, close each one as fuel is seen seeping out.

 

[AntiqueIron]

No fire. I was told they last ran it in October/November and now they have a much newer unit on site so they don’t need this one. Is there a way to prime the injectors without turning the engine over?…some sort of manual method? It’s very cold here and turn the motor over constantly is tough on the battery and starter.

You usually don’t need to bleed the injectors when changing a fuel filter.

A diesel fuel system has two parts, the high pressure side and low pressure side. Fuel filter is on the low pressure side so as long as the pump has a bleed screw you just actuate the lift pump till diesel flows clean.

The only reason to crack injector lines is if you don’t/can’t bleed the low pressure side and air migrates through the pump to the lines.

 

[sd455dan]

You most likely have a fuel problem! We can see that! Mentioned the possible missing clamp doesn't mean that was the problem. If it sits Vacuum can suck air in it. Rule out #1 compression. You was using either to get it to fire was a indication of being low. Now could be possible No compression after using the either ?. Which is well known to cause problems on a diesel Eng.. Go through all the lines and replace the High degree Ghetto Job!! No doubt about that now. Doesn't take a genius to see that. Replace the lines and Chk. the compression If it has any now..

Ford sold lots of the older 3 and 4 cylinder diesels With ether starting aids from the factory They also have steel ring land reinforcements cast into the pistons. To much ether is the problem, but used as Ford recommended or a small amount to see if the engine will fire should not hurt it.

Engines built without the steel ring land insert pistons I would not use ether. Obviously best to start without using it and rely on the Thermostart intake fire instead

 

[careyo63]

When I change the fuel filter I bleed the fuel bowl. And another set on the Pump itself. I do it twice actually. Filter to the pump and the pump back to the filter and make sure it's all out. Real easy and NAPA has filters. Keep it clean is a rule of thumb! The Compression release is Nice cold start feature. So much easier to get it spinning.

 

[sd455dan]

You usually don’t need to bleed the injectors when changing a fuel filter.

A diesel fuel system has two parts, the high pressure side and low pressure side. Fuel filter is on the low pressure side so as long as the pump has a bleed screw you just actuate the lift pump till diesel flows clean.

The only reason to crack injector lines is if you don’t/can’t bleed the low pressure side and air migrates through the pump to the lines.

CAV pumps do not have manual lift pumps, Simms Inline pumps do. his 555 is a distributor/rotary pump.

 

[AntiqueIron]

CAV pumps do not have manual lift pumps, Simms Inline pumps do. his 555 is a distributor/rotary pump.

Ah, my mistake

 

[rdwyer]

2 questions at the bottom below my summary: I went down there today and changed the filter out. It was dirty but not clogged. The line coming into the filter housing from the tank leaks and when I pulled it out, the ferrule was gouged and there’s no flare on the end of the line. So I’ve ordered a barbed fitting with compression ferrule and a flared end. I’ll put that on and run a flexible fuel line between it and a temporary external tank I picked up. For the line running from the housing to the pump I will also use the barbed fitting and run a clear line between it and the pump so I can see what it’s doing.

We did hook up a 12v pump pulling from a jug and pushing directly into the pump. I removed one injector line at the banjo fitting on the lift pump. When I opened the bleed screw and turned it over, I got a decent stream coming out. I would think that when I closed that bleeder, the fluid would come out the pump at the banjo fitting but it did not.

So while I still have some things to do, I’m concerned that I get a decent flow into the pump but nothing out of it.

1- Is it possible that the manual fuel shutoff lever can be open on the outside but somehow stuck closed internally? I wouldn’t think so given it seems to be a simple mechanical setup.

2 - Can the small lift pump that attaches to the high pressure pump be the culprit?…and how do you test that?

 

[TractorTech]

1. Possibly. But since you haven't opened the top since it last ran, not likely.

2. No.
You got fuel pressure with the electric pump and still no high pressure (that would come out of the injector line banjo)
The high pressure is created when the pump rotor turns along a cam ring. The lobes push 2 plungers in to generate the high pressure, but the plungers have to be pushed outward by the low pressure pump whether that's the rear vane pump or the electric pump. Don't think that forcing more pressure on the inlet side is going to free them up.
Like I said before, those plungers are gummed up or stuck from water in the pump that's frozen. Either reason that it may be stuck, heat may get them to free up.
There are a couple of methods to free them, but generally if heating the pump up to 80 or 90° doesn't work, you can take Berrymans and pour in to inlet and let it bleed through the pump bleed. Let it sit for at least an hour. Then crank the engine a couple of revolutions. After, hook diesel supply and bleed/push the Berrymans out the best you possibly can. Once pump has majority diesel, try cranking and bleeding out injrmector line or banjo. If the banjo bolt is out, fuel should squirt out, not dribble.

You don't want to bleed the Berrymans through the pump to the injector ports is it has no lubricating properties and could prematurely wear the pump in dhort time.

 

[rdwyer]

I’ll be back on this tomorrow. I have a 60,000 btu torpedo heater that is going to heat that thing up so it’s toasty.

If that doesn’t do it, what options do I have for further attempts to get it unstuck without taking it off? Can portions of it come apart in situ to give me access to the inside?

 

[AntiqueIron]

2 questions at the bottom below my summary: I went down there today and changed the filter out. It was dirty but not clogged. The line coming into the filter housing from the tank leaks and when I pulled it out, the ferrule was gouged and there’s no flare on the end of the line. So I’ve ordered a barbed fitting with compression ferrule and a flared end. I’ll put that on and run a flexible fuel line between it and a temporary external tank I picked up. For the line running from the housing to the pump I will also use the barbed fitting and run a clear line between it and the pump so I can see what it’s doing.

We did hook up a 12v pump pulling from a jug and pushing directly into the pump. I removed one injector line at the banjo fitting on the lift pump. When I opened the bleed screw and turned it over, I got a decent stream coming out. I would think that when I closed that bleeder, the fluid would come out the pump at the banjo fitting but it did not.

So while I still have some things to do, I’m concerned that I get a decent flow into the pump but nothing out of it.

1- Is it possible that the manual fuel shutoff lever can be open on the outside but somehow stuck closed internally? I wouldn’t think so given it seems to be a simple mechanical setup.

2 - Can the small lift pump that attaches to the high pressure pump be the culprit?…and how do you test that?

I’ll be back on this tomorrow. I have a 60,000 btu torpedo heater that is going to heat that thing up so it’s toasty.

If that doesn’t do it, what options do I have for further attempts to get it unstuck without taking it off? Can portions of it come apart in situ to give me access to the inside?

You can always try tapping the pump with a soft faced hammer. I really doubt you’d develop pump problems in 6 months of sitting though unless it’s full of straight water. Your filters should have caught that.

Warm it up, go from there.

 

[careyo63]

CT. in the winter not helping you much. Which now I understand the problems. Your going to have to get a cold start working. Family from New Hartford I was just off 95 in Md.. This is kind of typical and I believe Your get it going.

 

[TractorTech]

I’ll be back on this tomorrow. I have a 60,000 btu torpedo heater that is going to heat that thing up so it’s toasty.

If that doesn’t do it, what options do I have for further attempts to get it unstuck without taking it off? Can portions of it come apart in situ to give me access to the inside?

The top can come off, but the throttle spring goes in specific holes on both ends. One end is held with a spring loaded pin that can fly off into the governor chamber. And, the shutoff plate needs to go back on the shutoff shaft dowel. Not awful, just not the easiest if you haven't done this before. Besides, it only allows you to flush the pump better, but....

 

[rdwyer]

Ok. Still no luck. I heated the area with my torpedo heater. It got hot. The engine turned over way faster being warm but not a drop from the injectors. The small bleed screw on the side of the pump, I get a real good pumping stream if it’s cracked while I turn it over. But not an ounce from the lines. I even removed a banjo line at the pump and cranked it over looking for the slightest sign of fluid being pushed out - nothing.

Could this still be air in the pump even though Im getting this steady stream?

How long should I be trying to bleed that pump? I’m not seeing anything but fluid come out.

If take the entire pump off to crack it open on a bench, what degree of difficulty am I looking at? I was told doing so would mess with the timing. Is there a way to mark it or identify the position it came off so I could put it back the same way?

Getting frustrated. I was told it ran last year. I’m beginning to doubt that.

 

[careyo63]

Look to get in touch with the Member on here THEPUMPGUYSC. My fords gas but he would be a good one to talk to.

 

[rdwyer]

Before I remove the pump, I’ll give it one more shot tomorrow. I read elsewhere that I should have the fuel shutoff lever pulled while purging the pump and then obviously open for the injectors. I also read that I should be cranking for a full 30 seconds or so with 15 second rests. I don’t think I held it for more than 15 seconds at a time. I’ll open the pump bleeder and crank it for a full 30 seconds.

 

[TractorTech]

Ok. Still no luck. I heated the area with my torpedo heater. It got hot. The engine turned over way faster being warm but not a drop from the injectors. The small bleed screw on the side of the pump, I get a real good pumping stream if it’s cracked while I turn it over. But not an ounce from the lines. I even removed a banjo line at the pump and cranked it over looking for the slightest sign of fluid being pushed out - nothing.

Could this still be air in the pump even though Im getting this steady stream?

How long should I be trying to bleed that pump? I’m not seeing anything but fluid come out.

If take the entire pump off to crack it open on a bench, what degree of difficulty am I looking at? I was told doing so would mess with the timing. Is there a way to mark it or identify the position it came off so I could put it back the same way?

Getting frustrated. I was told it ran last year. I’m beginning to doubt that.

If you need to take the pump off, drain the coolant, take the lower hose off and remove the pump timing cover. Remove the 3 bolts on the gear. Remove the lines, linkage and 3 mount bolts. You cannot mess up the timing as the injection pump gear can't be removed or turned and the pump shaft is keyed to the gear.
thepumpguysc is great.
Also,

or Bundy Bears Shed videos, but I think his site is having a problem.

 

[rdwyer]

…You cannot mess up the timing as the injection pump gear can't be removed or turned and the pump shaft is keyed to the gear….

Is the above true if I remove this pump and install a new pump, even if it’s from a different manufacturer?

 

[TractorTech]

Is the above true if I remove this pump and install a new pump, even if it’s from a different manufacturer?

As long as it is made for that particular engine/tractor, yes.