650 PTO question?

[JohnDeereHere]

Hello everyone.I recently purchased a 1984 John Deere 650 4wd.It is my first tractor with a single stage clutch.This may be a silly question.......but here goes.With the engine spooled up,tractor movement stopped,clutch pedal depressed,PTO engaged,bush hog turning (from inertia),should i be able to change gears?It's 50/50.Sometimes i can,sometimes i can't.I've adjusted the clutch pedal travel to factory specs,which helped a little.But i can still grind em if im not careful.Should i just wait for the bush hog to stop turning,and then change gears?The overrunning clutch is working,i can hear the clicking sound.This tractor saw very little rear PTO usage before i bought it,as it was mainly a lawn mower.Any thoughts?Thanks for the input!

Charles

 

[beenthere]

Yes, for sure you have to wait for the PTO to stop turning. Otherwise your tranny is moving and will grind the gears.

With the overrunning clutch, then there are some combinations of switching gears that will not grind, but it has to be done quickly.

With practice, you will figure out those combinations. Enjoy the seat time.

 

[JohnDeereHere]

Thanks very much for the info.I'm glad this is an operator issue and not a mechanical issue.I'll just have to realize that cutting in tight places with a single stage clutch takes a bit longer.

 

[Gizmo2]

Really tough to switch gears with the RPMs up high enough for the PTO to run at 540. I used a 5 ft rear mower on my 1988, 650 for years, definitely better then nothing but....

 

[JohnDeereHere]

I agree.This morning i practiced shifting immediately after i pushed in the clutch,seemed to work ok.No scraping noise.But i don't really like doing it.Even with no scraping or grinding i am still concerned about the tranny.The owner's manual seems to skirt the issue.

 

[beenthere]

I agree.This morning i practiced shifting immediately after i pushed in the clutch,seemed to work ok.No scraping noise.But i don't really like doing it.Even with no scraping or grinding i am still concerned about the tranny.The owner's manual seems to skirt the issue.

I didn't mean to switch gears quickly after pushing in the clutch, although I didn't say it very clearly.

Meant to say just move from gear to gear quickly, and be sure the tractor wheels are not moving when shifting. So you can push in the clutch, brake to stop the tractor from moving, and then quickly shift gears (likely going between forward gear and reverse). The over-running clutch will start the tranny gears moving if you wait too long in neutral(That is if the over-running clutch is operating as it should).

The comment about the tractor wheels not moving applies whenever shifting gears, as you likely don't have a synchro tranny.

There are a lot of situations not covered in the manual. It would be the thickness of the NYC telephone book if they were.
And an over-running clutch is not likely an item included. Shifting while moving might be covered. But in those days, most everyone knew what shifting a car or truck without synchro mesh tranny was all about. Even double clutching to move through the gears was a reality.

 

[JohnDeereHere]

My mistake.I didn't finish my thought earlier.I never,i mean never,shift while moving.The manual is very clear on that.I just meant "to shift quickly" while the pto was turning.Your explanation makes perfect sense.If i wait to long then i can forget shifting.You have to "plan your route" while running a bush hog.Might be easier with a finish mower,which should stop spinning sooner.

 

[beenthere]

Sounds good.
When back in the day of my 2 cyl JD 420, I had the similar situation. If caught in neutral and the deck still spinning, I'd just lower the deck into the ground and/or brush to stop it. Otherwise it takes awhile as you say.