A kid gets terminated at work...

   #1  

Sigarms

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My one child (sophomore in high school) works for a pretty well know national "upscale" food chain.

I heard my wife talking with my kid, and she (wife) was laughing hysterically, so I was curious as to what was so funny.

A coworker a while ago (teenager as well) apparently brought pot/weed into the restaurant, didn't want it on him, didn't know what to do with it, so he put in a oven. Low and behold, either the oven was on or someone turned it on with the pot/weed still in the oven, and you can guess what happened...

Apparently that was only good for a write up....

Little while later, same kid who threw the pot/weed in the oven got caught in the bathroom smoking his stash with other some other co workers in the bathroom. Same story, everyone written up, no one terminated.

Well, the third strike that finally got the two peat offender fired was he overcharged a customer $1.50 on their invoice.

Break the law twice where you could actually be arrested, no problem, keep your job. Make a simple mistake which anyone with a bad day could do, and that's the final straw?

Have to give my kid credit, already applying for other jobs to find something better.
 
   #2  

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   #3  

swnoel

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Would you have been happier if the business owner got the police involved? Like they say... give some people enough rope and they hang themselves. I'm not so sure I would have been so nice to give them at least 3 strikes... bet there were more.
 
   #4  

polo1665

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My one child (sophomore in high school) works for a pretty well know national "upscale" food chain.

I heard my wife talking with my kid, and she (wife) was laughing hysterically, so I was curious as to what was so funny.

A coworker a while ago (teenager as well) apparently brought pot/weed into the restaurant, didn't want it on him, didn't know what to do with it, so he put in a oven. Low and behold, either the oven was on or someone turned it on with the pot/weed still in the oven, and you can guess what happened...

Apparently that was only good for a write up....

Little while later, same kid who threw the pot/weed in the oven got caught in the bathroom smoking his stash with other some other co workers in the bathroom. Same story, everyone written up, no one terminated.

Well, the third strike that finally got the two peat offender fired was he overcharged a customer $1.50 on their invoice.

Break the law twice where you could actually be arrested, no problem, keep your job. Make a simple mistake which anyone with a bad day could do, and that's the final straw?

Have to give my kid credit, already applying for other jobs to find something better.

At my place of work, occasionally people get into major trouble and are put on a last chance agreement. This means that any issue after the agreement is made could mean termination. Our shop is a union shop though, and I would have a hard time believing that sort of agreement being made without a union being involved. That being said, the guy you are describing would have been canned at our facility after the first offense.
 
   #5  

lman

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Hey it's hard to find good help. Today it's hard to find any help. Too many would rather smoke weed and play video games at home.
 
   #6  

Jchonline

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You need a bunch of documentation to fire people these days. It is ridiculous. I’m just glad the idiot didn’t blow up the kitchen and a bunch of employees with it.
 
  
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Sigarms

Sigarms

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At my place of work, occasionally people get into major trouble and are put on a last chance agreement. This means that any issue after the agreement is made could mean termination. Our shop is a union shop though, and I would have a hard time believing that sort of agreement being made without a union being involved. That being said, the guy you are describing would have been canned at our facility after the first offense.
NC labor laws are very different than what they are for up North.

My home office is way north of here. We had a guy we wanted to terminate here, but the home office wouldn't let us because they we're going by their state labor laws, not ours.

In NC, you can pretty much be fired for anything.

I always get right to work vs at will mixed up, but long story short, in NC, you're on the short end of a stick as an employee.
 
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   #8  

RickB

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You need a bunch of documentation to fire people these days. It is ridiculous. I’m just glad the idiot didn’t blow up the kitchen and a bunch of employees with it.
You don't need anything specific to fire a non union worker in NC. No cause or justification needed, want somebody gone; terminate them.
 
   #9  

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I pray the kid gets things figured out before getting in real trouble.

Pay low wages get low quality workers(most of the time).

When I hear people say they can find quality employees I think it means "I'm not willing to pay for quality employees"(most of the time).
 

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I was an employer for decades. We had good hiring practices and attracted intelligent, productive and hard working employees who were rewarded well and enjoyed their jobs. But every once in a while, a bad apple slipped in.

What I can say from experience is if you hear a sob story about how an employee was unfairly terminated, you likely don't know the whole story. Our labor law attorney advised me, and senior management, to say or reveal *nothing* if an employee was warned or disciplined, say or reveal *nothing* even in response to problem employees who would spread falsehoods about being "mistreated."

The result was one-sided. We would know of a problem employee repeatedly violating policies or misbehaving, but their fellow co-workers often knew nothing of it. If it led to termination, the problem employee could whine about unfairness and get a lot of sympathy from others-- because most of their misdeeds were never known. One employee was caught red-handed stealing an item valued over $1,000. None of his fellow employees ever knew he was caught and disciplined. This particular employee was in a "protected class" (such as minority, or over age 40) so we have to be very very careful about doing a termination. When this same employee was involved in another incident and was fired, he caused a lot of upset with others about his "horrible manager," his mistreatment, and discrimination.

Needless to say, I have little sympathy when I learn of an employee termination. Because I know from experience that there is usually much more to the story that never comes out.
 

MossRoad

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My one child (sophomore in high school) works for a pretty well know national "upscale" food chain.

I heard my wife talking with my kid, and she (wife) was laughing hysterically, so I was curious as to what was so funny.

A coworker a while ago (teenager as well) apparently brought pot/weed into the restaurant, didn't want it on him, didn't know what to do with it, so he put in a oven. Low and behold, either the oven was on or someone turned it on with the pot/weed still in the oven, and you can guess what happened...

Apparently that was only good for a write up....

Little while later, same kid who threw the pot/weed in the oven got caught in the bathroom smoking his stash with other some other co workers in the bathroom. Same story, everyone written up, no one terminated.

Well, the third strike that finally got the two peat offender fired was he overcharged a customer $1.50 on their invoice.

Break the law twice where you could actually be arrested, no problem, keep your job. Make a simple mistake which anyone with a bad day could do, and that's the final straw?

Have to give my kid credit, already applying for other jobs to find something better.
:ROFLMAO: Reminds me of places I've worked where it's really, really hard to get fired, yet some still manage to do it.

Glad your kid sees the future at such a young age. (y)
 

Deere Dude

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You don't need anything specific to fire a non union worker in NC. No cause or justification needed, want somebody gone; terminate them.
We had a union shop where it was difficult to fire anyone without very ample cause. We hired a dozen or so and one big slob employee just had a big mouth. Giving everyone around him a hard time about how he was always mistreated even though he was great. I was only a pipefitter and fairly easy going but this guy was very obnoxious.

He had a fairly new young female supervisor and was giving her grief many times a day. Finally I walked up to the female sup. and told her that anyone can be terminated as long as they don't have 90 days in yet. That was the policy in our shop anyway. The next morning he was met at the front door by 2 security guards and was given the news. The company got one right.
 

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The very concept and idea of a "protected class" is un-American.
Protected class is about things you can't be terminated for. Things that used to take place back in the good ole days. For instance i hire you because you have the qualifications for the job. Then i find out you are a White Christian, i can't fire you because of that. I may be able to gen up another excuse, to get around it, but can't just kick you down the road because of your race and religion. Of course, you'd probably want to take your skills elsewhere and provide benefit to another business.
 

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The very concept and idea of a "protected class" is un-American.
My state is an at-will state; in other words you can be fired for no particular reason, with a few exception like race, religion, etc. There are two classes of public employees; merit and exempt. Exempt are employed at-will, and merit employees may only be fired for cause. This is designed to protect them from political firings; but they must give up their right to publicly participate in political campaigns. I was counsel to our HR department, and you can fire merit employees, but you must have the cause well documented. They have the right to a hearing and appeal to the court system.
 

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When I hear people say they can find quality employees I think it means "I'm not willing to pay for quality employees"(most of the time).
I think it is a case of wage disparity resulting in too many jobs that aren't worth having. You can't even support yourself, yet alone your family on the wages. That eventually evolves into a work ethic that is dismal, possibly associated with drug use and/or a "I don't give a damn" attitude. If they have kids, that attitude is passed on to them. We are creating a work force, along with a split society that has major issues, and it won't be easily fixed.
 

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My state is an at-will state; in other words you can be fired for no particular reason, with a few exception like race, religion, etc. There are two classes of public employees; merit and exempt. Exempt are employed at-will, and merit employees may only be fired for cause. This is designed to protect them from political firings; but they must give up their right to publicly participate in political campaigns. I was counsel to our HR department, and you can fire merit employees, but you must have the cause well documented. They have the right to a hearing and appeal to the court system.
... like putting your pot stash in a running oven, or smoking pot on the clock? :unsure:
 

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The very concept and idea of a "protected class" is un-American.
I was an employer when CA laws changed to include age 40+ employees/applicants into protected class. Employers responded by becoming very wary of hiring any age 40+ applicant. The cost, expense, and risk of doing (even a well justified) termination was just too high. Age 40+ applicants had a more difficult time finding a job.

So the intended social engineering change actually achieved the opposite, at least initially.
 
  
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Sigarms

Sigarms

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You need a bunch of documentation to fire people these days. It is ridiculous. I’m just glad the idiot didn’t blow up the kitchen and a bunch of employees with it.
Blowing something up with weed in possesion of teen would never cross my mind. It's not like kids have butane hash oil on them.
 

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I pray the kid gets things figured out before getting in real trouble.

Pay low wages get low quality workers(most of the time).

When I hear people say they can find quality employees I think it means "I'm not willing to pay for quality employees"(most of the time).
I think you are out of touch with the way people think, they are owed everything. Just ask them.

Also in Florida my company was required to follow the laws, insurances, taxes etc. The parent company, a nationally known house builder, then hired illegal companies under the table. No workmans comp, no licenses, undocumented workers. We called the county and state authorities but no one would enforce the laws.

I could not "pay for quality employees" as the well ran dry money wise. When you grease the right wheels you get to line your pockets. We were the "on paper legal company" and they gave the bulk of the work to the illegals and finely forced us out.

And my $1,000,000 per year of work I could not compete with the illegals.

In todays world you can not compete with $15 per hour minimum wages and a government that is willing to pay people to stay at home.
 
  
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Sigarms

Sigarms

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Also in Florida my company was required to follow the laws, insurances, taxes etc. The parent company, a nationally known house builder, then hired illegal companies under the table. No workmans comp, no licenses, undocumented workers. We called the county and state authorities but no one would enforce the laws.
I've got to ask, why was your company required to follow the law working in your state, but your parent company wasn't required to follow state law in the same state?
 

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The builder that we were working for used our name and info on the paper work to show that they were compliant with the laws/rules. They then hired scabs to work under the table and gave most of the work to them. Calls were made by us and compliants were filed and nothing was done to remove the scabs from the jobs. The scab's costs were much lower then ours and we could not compete with the scabs.

After multiple supers told me what was going on we moved on to greener pastures.
 

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I was an employer when CA laws changed to include age 40+ employees/applicants into protected class. Employers responded by becoming very wary of hiring any age 40+ applicant. The cost, expense, and risk of doing (even a well justified) termination was just too high. Age 40+ applicants had a more difficult time finding a job.

So the intended social engineering change actually achieved the opposite, at least initially.
So California made that law because there was a problem of discrimination of +40 people. And it did have unintended consequences. If enough employers did the right things in the first place we wouldn't have these stupid social engineering laws that don't work. But that ain't gonna happen either. What a conundrum! You could make the same argument about labor unions. If employers were fair with their employees in the first place we wouldn't have Unions. And these Unions can be just as big of a problem as the one they intended to solve. Maybe we are approaching these social problems in the wrong way?
 
  
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Sigarms

Sigarms

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The builder that we were working for used our name and info on the paper work to show that they were compliant with the laws/rules. They then hired scabs to work under the table and gave most of the work to them. Calls were made by us and compliants were filed and nothing was done to remove the scabs from the jobs. The scab's costs were much lower then ours and we could not compete with the scabs.

After multiple supers told me what was going on we moved on to greener pastures.
I would think your company would have had legal recourse if the builder was misrepresenting your company for pulling permits?

Honestly however, when a parent company undercuts one of it's own subdivisions on a state job, it the long run, that doesn't make much sense as well.
 
  
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Guys, at the end of the day, weed is illegal in NC.

If I'm the owner of this francise food chain, anyone employee who brings in an illegal drug (underage to boot) in their place of business would be terminated on the spot, no if ands or butts, let alone accidently burning the product in a business stove.

If a customer while inside the business would have gotten high from the smoke of the product burning, they could most likely press charges, and the news media alone would be a nightmare IMO for business.

I would have told the kid your fired, but since no one complained, I'm not pressing charges and you won't have to deal with the police. Count your blessings.
 

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I think you are out of touch with the way people think, they are owed everything. Just ask them.

Also in Florida my company was required to follow the laws, insurances, taxes etc. The parent company, a nationally known house builder, then hired illegal companies under the table. No workmans comp, no licenses, undocumented workers. We called the county and state authorities but no one would enforce the laws.

I could not "pay for quality employees" as the well ran dry money wise. When you grease the right wheels you get to line your pockets. We were the "on paper legal company" and they gave the bulk of the work to the illegals and finely forced us out.

And my $1,000,000 per year of work I could not compete with the illegals.

In todays world you can not compete with $15 per hour minimum wages and a government that is willing to pay people to stay at home.
I'm not sure everybody understands how Florida Laws work. They're different. But they make sense if you familiarize yourself with them.

Some Subcontractors can work on a jobsite under the GC's Workers Comp and under his license and insurance. Or, as is the case many times, a Sub will have a Class B license and he can bring in whatever workers he needs under his workers comp (usually an 'If Any' policy -- Don't ask) and CGL (contractos general liability)

Community Jobsites, the ones being built by a single company are probably what you're talking about. They make their own rules. And sometimes, they're just not up-to-speed. The bane of every company is that when they get big enough, they bring lawyers in to muck everything up. Never fails. Even communities that allow multiple builders can be a little silly at times. They often struggle because of it and the home-buyer pays for it.

As to illegals? Oh HALE yes! Juan shows up with a SS Card that you think is phony as all get out but if you refuse to hire him and he turns out to be legit, you're gonna be talking to Dewey, Cheatum and Howe, attorneys at law.

So you run him through the Federal Computer and sure enough, 4-5 Months later you get word..... he's illegal. See Ya! Six Months later he shows up again with a different SS card, another hair style, and a different DL. This time his name is Julio. And again, you're brain dead if you turn him down based on your suspicion of him being an illegal. He will OWN you if you're wrong. Maybe they've improved the time it takes no to get back whether he's an illegal or not. Don't know. Speaking from 10 year old knowledge. Don't matter though. Those 'illiterate' feraners out-smart our sooper-edumacated goobermint employees every time. funny stuff

There's some pretty big Companies down here that do okay. Maybe some day we can get some homes built.

maybe
 

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I pray the kid gets things figured out before getting in real trouble.

Pay low wages get low quality workers(most of the time).

When I hear people say they can find quality employees I think it means "I'm not willing to pay for quality employees"(most of the time).

Well I cannot debate your "most of the time" qualifier, I can only speak for myself. I have five positions available at my company of thirty. We pay market rates for employees. We can't get qualified people to apply for or open positions. Once we do get someone qualified we have to approach the salary discussion very carefully because laws evolve seemingly every year meant to close the mostly fictitious equal pay for equal work gap.

One example, we need a software developer with motion control and data acquisition and processing experience. Our ad covers a range from $75K entry level to $125K. Still nothing after five weeks.

Machinist/Toolmakers...nothing.
 

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Protected class is about things you can't be terminated for. Things that used to take place back in the good ole days. For instance i hire you because you have the qualifications for the job. Then i find out you are a White Christian, i can't fire you because of that. I may be able to gen up another excuse, to get around it, but can't just kick you down the road because of your race and religion. Of course, you'd probably want to take your skills elsewhere and provide benefit to another business.
CT is an at will state but, you still have to do it the right way, both for legal and moral reasons. I have had bad employees who if they were not in the protected classes, would have been let go earlier with less cost and disruption to the company. Fringe employees who are in protected classes know it and wear it like a shield.
 

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Being a GC we have added a section to our contracts for our subs to sign; it simply states "they" acknowledge their employee's are legal to work in the US and have verified their status; now "we" are covered if that goes south. Simply threw the ball back into their court; it's all BS anyway...
 
  
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CT is an at will state but, you still have to do it the right way, both for legal and moral reasons. I have had bad employees who if they were not in the protected classes, would have been let go earlier with less cost and disruption to the company. Fringe employees who are in protected classes know it and wear it like a shield.
NC is a at will state as well, but honestly didn't know anything about fringe employees being protected.

How does one become a fringe employee who are in a protected "class"? Union?

NC is also a right to work state. Do remember back in the 90's when Armstrong Air had their manufacturing facility in Bellvue (sp?) Ohio and Lennox (parent company) kept having issues with the union. They finally said screw it and moved the entire facility to South Carolina.
 

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I pray the kid gets things figured out before getting in real trouble.

Pay low wages get low quality workers(most of the time).

When I hear people say they can find quality employees I think it means "I'm not willing to pay for quality employees"(most of the time).
I've had a bunch of employees. By my definition that means I'm personally paying them outta my wallet or worse yet, my IRA! Not a "report" or a "team member"..my employee. If they screw up or cruise, it cost me $. I've had good ones, bad ones and the occasional super star.

I'm gonna take this to the grave.....some people, very few unfortunately, work hard and do their best because it's the right thing to do. Too many employees are just putting in there time and trying to get to tomorrow and too many just going for a ride. Of course government employment is the best example of that.

I found increasing salary, in most cases, has little to no long term effect. The person doing their job well because it's the right thing to do will do it weather you give them a raise or not.
 

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Being a GC we have added a section to our contracts for our subs to sign; it simply states "they" acknowledge their employee's are legal to work in the US and have verified their status; now "we" are covered if that goes south. Simply threw the ball back into their court; it's all BS anyway...
I'm being the devils advocate here but....

Do you get legal advice re that contract? Did a lawyer tell you it was legit? Did a lawyer write the contract?

Better put....Will it stand up in court.

Many of the subs working on my new house will tell you, without illegals they would be outta business.
 
  
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I'm gonna take this to the grave.....some people, very few unfortunately, work hard and do their best because it's the right thing to do. Too many employees are just putting in there time and trying to get to tomorrow and too many just going for a ride. Of course government employment is the best example of that.

I found increasing salary, in most cases, has little to no long term effect. The person doing their job well because it's the right thing to do will do it weather you give them a raise or not.
My one kid has been working at this place for like 8 months now. Now is second in line as far as seniority goes. Started off working 15-20 hrs a week, now pushing 40 hrs since it's summer (of course they don't want to pay overtime). Started off at like $8.25. Still at that pay rate. The kid has been dependable, comes in when called not scheduled to work, and has covered multiple duties due to lack of people showing up for work and being short staffed.

By all accounts a pretty good employee who seems to get along with co workers.

Same place has hired people after my kids start date (around the same age) at $9.25 an hour. My kid asked for a raise at 6 months into the job, and gave a list of reasons why a pay raise was requested (all legitimate IMO). Request was put in by my kids supervisor as the supervisor thought my kid was worth the pay raise.

Kid is STILL waiting for that pay raise.

I look at this business and can't help but think how stupid the ownership is. The reason kids leave this place (high turnover rate) is there is no standarized work structure and no standardized pay. When you have a kid that shows up on time everytime, works late when asked to and does more than what they were hired to do, you HAVE to reward your employee somehow.

One of many reasons why my kid is looking for a better job now.

Thing is, we've explained that it's a job, some jobs can suck (and it's great that this first job sucks because you can get use to that in a work environment at a young age), but to a GOOD job and get the work experience under your belt starting at age 15 so you actually have that experience, not be fired and actually have some work references are worth their weight in gold IMO.
 
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How does one become a fringe employee who are in a protected "class"?
A protected class is created by lawmakers in a state, also federal. Examples are most applicants or employees who are non-white, others if they have a disability, and in many jurisdictions, females. Those in the "protected class" have special rights higher than those without protected class.

Those in a protected class can quickly bring the entire weight of local or federal government to bear against an employer. Even if they only applied for a job. Suppose you are an employer, and interview 10 people for a job opening. You choose the best applicant. But if one of the applicants that you did not choose is over age 40, they can make a discrimination claim they were passed up because the employer wanted someone younger. (Or for a minority, claiming racial discrimination.) So, hiring becomes a dangerous minefield.

Whether the claim is true or not does not alter the negative economic impact on the employer. That employer is now subject to long and expensive enforcement actions to determine the validity of the claim. Since the job applicant was "protected class", they are represented for free by the government. The employer (if they are smart) is represented by a skilled labor law attorney. ($$) It is costly and time consuming for the employer regardless of whether they win or lose. (which often leads to out-of-court settlements.)

In some jurisdictions, entire cottage industries have sprung up to encourage and nurture such claims to get filed. Then everyone involved gets a slice of the $$ when a settlement is extracted from the employer. The more unscrupulous operators will "coach" job applicants on how to trick an interviewer into saying something that would generate a successful claim. We had applicants ask things like: "Am I too old to be considered for this job?" -or- "Do you prefer your sales people to be white?" These were folks looking more for a settlement than a job.

Some employers get sued for discrimination even if they never hired, or even interviewed, someone. In the below case, the claimant argued he was discriminated against because he was disabled and could not properly access Burger King locations because of their design. He asked for damages of $5,000 per Burger King location. Since Burger King had about 500 locations in CA at the time, that was a big-money lawsuit!

 

Jchonline

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Blowing something up with weed in possesion of teen would never cross my mind. It's not like kids have butane hash oil on them.
I didn’t mean cooking weed would blow something up. I mean’t a serious lack of good judgement (based on described behavior) could lead to it in other ways.
 

RickB

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My one kid has been working at this place for like 8 months now. Now is second in line as far as seniority goes. Started off working 15-20 hrs a week, now pushing 40 hrs since it's summer (of course they don't want to pay overtime). Started off at like $8.25. Still at that pay rate. The kid has been dependable, comes in when called not scheduled to work, and has covered multiple duties due to lack of people showing up for work and being short staffed.

By all accounts a pretty good employee who seems to get along with co workers.

Same place has hired people after my kids start date (around the same age) at $9.25 an hour. My kid asked for a raise at 6 months into the job, and gave a list of reasons why a pay raise was requested (all legitimate IMO). Request was put in by my kids supervisor as the supervisor thought my kid was worth the pay raise.

Kid is STILL waiting for that pay raise.

I look at this business and can't help but think how stupid the ownership is. The reason kids leave this place (high turnover rate) is there is no standarized work structure and no standardized pay. When you have a kid that shows up on time everytime, works late when asked to and does more than what they were hired to do, you HAVE to reward your employee somehow.

One of many reasons why my kid is looking for a better job now.

Thing is, we've explained that it's a job, some jobs can suck (and it's great that this first job sucks because you can get use to that in a work environment at a young age), but to a GOOD job and get the work experience under your belt starting at age 15 so you actually have that experience, not be fired and actually have some work references are worth their weight in gold IMO.
Your kid's boss is banking on finding another good one after your son moves on. Typical NC private sector small biz employer. That group is very slow to figure out why it isn't working in this business climate.
 

CobyRupert

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Should an employee give two weeks notice before quitting?
Should an employer give two weeks notice before ending someone’s source of income?

Bonus points if you can answer yes to one question and no to the other and include phrases like “ mutual respect” in your reasoning.
 

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I look at this business and can't help but think how stupid the ownership is. ... One of many reasons why my kid is looking for a better job now.
Exactly how "at will" employment should work. The kid isn't contractually obligated to stay, and only does so because there isn't yet a better alternative. The employer isn't required to further reward the kid, nor even continue the employment, even if such are stupid decisions.

Q- when you kid finds a better job, the employer will lose an already trained employee, have to replace that person with a (likely) more expensive employee, and endue the costs of interviewing and training someone new. Why do you think they are doing something that seems so obviously stupid?
 
  
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Sigarms

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Your kid's boss is banking on finding another good one after your son moves on. Typical NC private sector small biz employer. That group is very slow to figure out why it isn't working in this business climate.
That line of thinking makes no sense to me.

Currently it seems this business loses an employee every month other than the standard "going away to college" during the summer months.

You have an employee who shows up at work when they are supposed to, they do what you tell them to do, and they work longer then they are scheduled for, it makes no sense if that employee who has the second longest tenure at the business doesn't make what everyone else is making in a heartbeat vs the PITA factor it will involve in finding a new employee that will be just as good and dependable.

It's actually kind of an insult to hire people with the same amount of experience at a higher pay rate IMO.

I really hope my kid does find another job LOL

That said, kid is smart IMO. Kid deals with it because already has saved over 5k in the 7 months there, and has only been applying at one place at a time to given the potential new company time to get back so multiple offers don't come in at the same time, and looking at higher end places in hopes to be a server before high school graduation. I've mentioned the best gig I had in college was waiting tables at higher end places because the ticket prices and the tips add up. As I explained, would you rather make 15% on a $30 meal for 4 or 15% on a $90 meal for 4?
 

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Bonus points if you can answer yes to one question and no to the other
It's an interesting question, but not a fair question since the expected standards of employer / employee conduct are different.

If an employee hears another employee say: "If I don't get what I want I'll bring a gun to work and shoot the place up," the employee doesn't have a specific duty to act and protect other employees. Morally, of course, but legally, not so much. The employer does. The employer could be sued (or worse) for failing to action in many circumstances.

So, such an employer would show "respect" to the other valued employees by immediately terminating the one making the threat.
 

plowhog

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It's actually kind of an insult to hire people with the same amount of experience at a higher pay rate IMO.
I would guess when you kid puts in his notice to quit, he will be offered a pay raise. But most likely, at that point it will be too late.
 
  
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when you kid finds a better job, the employer will lose an already trained employee, have to replace that person with a (likely) more expensive employee, and endue the costs of interviewing and training someone new. Why do you think they are doing something that seems so obviously stupid?
Honestly, no clue why they are doing something so stupid IMO. I know of at least 3 people who left for "better" jobs.

It's not like an extra $39 per week ($1 pay raise) would break the bank on their P&L.

That said, seems the 15-18 year olds make $9.25 and hour, and the 19-23 year olds make $10 or $11 an hour and they call them "managers". This way, they don't have to pay overtime is what I'm guessing. That said, I do think they need to be very careful about that IMO as far as working "management" per hours per week.

Thing is, all these kids (employees) are on a group text, and they discuss work. Kind of interesting that these kids know everything that's going on with work even if they aren't working that day. Kind of a new wrinkle in dealing with teenagers with technology today.
 
  
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I would guess when you kid puts in his notice to quit, he will be offered a pay raise. But most likely, at that point it will be too late.
2 week notice would be mandatory. Yes, I believe we're at the point that no matter what they would offer (probably nothing) leaving is what's on the mind.

Thing is they know a raised was asked for over a month ago. It just boggles my mind why you wouldn't want to take care of what seems to be a good employee (and by all accounts, I don't think I'm looking at this with rosed colored glasses).
 

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no matter what they would offer (probably nothing) leaving is what's on the mind.
Your kid will likely learn a valuable lesson. I learned this same lesson in my early 20's and it was valuable to me.

I worked for an employer making a low wage. At the end of the month I did not have enough money for food. I asked for a raise, and got the runaround. Two months later, more runaround. And then two months later ... again. Meanwhile I was starving at the end of each month.

I landed a better job somewhere else making close to double the pay. I gave notice, and the employer tried to replace me. All the applicants willing to work for that low pay were ... in his eyes ... entirely unsuitable. So, he offered to match my new rate of pay at the new job. I said no.

That was a valuable lesson. It was better to "live it" than have someone explain it to me. So maybe what is coming is good for your kid.
 
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two_bit_score

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I'm gonna take this to the grave.....some people, very few unfortunately, work hard and do their best because it's the right thing to do. Too many employees are just putting in there time and trying to get to tomorrow and too many just going for a ride. Of course government employment is the best example of that.

I found increasing salary, in most cases, has little to no long term effect. The person doing their job well because it's the right thing to do will do it weather you give them a raise or not.
I worked for a great employer who constant preached that “surveys showed” employees did not work for money, they worked for “satisfaction on the job”.

My response was “Stop that paycheck and see how many keep showing up”.

I stayed with that firm many years because I was, mostly, treated fairly and respectfully. Some bosses were better than others and the real poor ones never lasted long anyway. But, they paid well and, had a great profit sharing program, ESOP plan, more vacation time than I could ever use, good Company funded retirement Plus a 401k, company car at essentially no cost to me, travel when and where I needed to at my discretion, decent per diem travel allowance, good support for professional development, etc. But had they stopped giving raises in the early part of my tenure especially I would not have stayed 40 years.
 

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That line of thinking makes no sense to me.

Currently it seems this business loses an employee every month other than the standard "going away to college" during the summer months.

You have an employee who shows up at work when they are supposed to, they do what you tell them to do, and they work longer then they are scheduled for, it makes no sense if that employee who has the second longest tenure at the business doesn't make what everyone else is making in a heartbeat vs the PITA factor it will involve in finding a new employee that will be just as good and dependable.

It's actually kind of an insult to hire people with the same amount of experience at a higher pay rate IMO.

I really hope my kid does find another job LOL

That said, kid is smart IMO. Kid deals with it because already has saved over 5k in the 7 months there, and has only been applying at one place at a time to given the potential new company time to get back so multiple offers don't come in at the same time, and looking at higher end places in hopes to be a server before high school graduation. I've mentioned the best gig I had in college was waiting tables at higher end places because the ticket prices and the tips add up. As I explained, would you rather make 15% on a $30 meal for 4 or 15% on a $90 meal for 4?
I didn't say it made sense.
My time working for others was generally spent working for employers that took pretty good care of me regardless of their overall employment practices.
Then I moved South. It's a lot like living on a one way street.
 
 
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