Aluminum really inferior for tractors???

[whodat90]

I think the turfs were your problem.. etc.. reduced traction. It may very well be that if you would have had ag tires.. the 2wd and diffy lock would have been fine.. In your case with reduced traction tires.. it took 4 of them onthe ground to get the needed traction to do the job.
Soundguy

You're telling me that ag tires have more traction than turf tires on asphalt?
Edited: I was being argumentative. I apologize.

 

[whodat90]

Oh yeah, the monument; it's aluminum. The aluminum is both part of the lightning protection system and was used because of it's rarity and conductivity. The Washington Monument Was Completed

Aluminum was, until relatively recently, expensive and rare. Aluminum needs lots of electricity to make, which until the industrial revolution, wasn't available. Cast iron and cast steel only needed heat, which could be gotten from many sources. As for discussions of whether or not aluminum alloys are better than steel alloys or cast iron, the discussion can go nowhere without specific designs, measures of testing, etc. I wouldn't base my decision of what tractor to buy on whether or not a magnet would stick to it, but all things considered I'd rather have steel just for the ability to weld on it with inexpensive equipment and in less than ideal circumstances. Good luck trying to weld aluminum with an alternator driven stick welder in the mud.

 

[N80]

I think the point is that with any given 4wd tractor it is quite easy to tell how well it operates in 2wd vs 4wd, particularly with the FEL. I think it is quite silly to say that an FEL is useless on a 2wd but I think it is fair to say that it is more useful on a 4wd.

I think the point about lightness being a potential advantage for some CUTs is very valid particularly those used in lawn and golf course mowing.

For my money, if it works and keeps working, I don't much care what its made of. I also don't care what its made of if it doesn't work or won't keep working. Good aluminum is probably better than bad CI and vice versa.

 

[patrick_g]

Aluminum alloys, selected properly and with a decent design make stronger lighter assemblies than you can get with cast iron. For equal strength assemblies, the aluminum alloy will be much lighter but will cost significantly more.

With a proper design there are few heat problems with cast iron blocks and various structural members. Heavily worked diesels have been made of cast iron quite successfully for a while now. I think the engineering is pretty well understood. LIkewise tractors, dozers, earth movers etc.

Irrespective of any 4x4 vs 4x2 arguments, most tractors used beyond lawn mower or ego massager duty for agricultural posers NEED to be heavy to git 'er done. Weight means traction and ET (elapsed time) in a test of acceleration is not a central concern in tractor usage or design. If you need weight why build from aluminum and then add weight? You pay a double whammy cost penalty.

There is lots of talk about filling the rear tires, adding wheel weights in back and adding front weights. Making parts out of appropriate aluminum alloys strong enough for the job costs more than making parts strong enough to do the job out of cast iron. Does it not strike anyone as odd that you would want to pay more to get a light tractor made with aluminum assemblies and then pay yet more to add weights to get it heavy enough to do the work? Why?

Maybe for lawnmower duty aluminum would be good as less weight would not rut so easily and not tear up the turf so much when mowing the lawn. So there is likely a niche or two for lightweight tractors.

I am open minded though and would be pleased to hear anyone's argument as to why lighter is better in the vast majority of cases where tractors are employed to do more than mow the lawn. Please carefully explain the part about the advantages of paying extra to get a light weight tractor and then paying extra again to weight it so it can do real work. It can't be that someone just woke up and realized that heat transfer was a big tractor problem that had gone unrecognized for decades or that tractors are too heavy for most tasks.

Pat

 

[Soundguy]

Uh.. no offense taken.. we are just having a good discussion.

As for the question of ag vs turf on asphalt? Not sure if that was rehetoricle or not but...

Hmm.. hard to say.. Those paddles on ag tires can dig in real good.. so good that i imagine they would start pulling asphalt to get traction.. the turfs would probably spin before ripping hunks out. Neither of those conditions would be ideal...

Soundguy

You're telling me that ag tires have more traction than turf tires on asphalt?
Edited: I was being argumentative. I apologize.

 

[N80]

Well, the first thing I'd point out is that a lot of us here would probably meet your criteria for "ego massager duty for agricultural posers". But we don't mind, we know who we are and why we have our tractors.

But back to your question about weight. A lot of people who use CUTs trailer them a lot and they haul them with light duty trucks (150s, 1500s). Extra weight means possibly needing a beefier trailer and or truck, and that means more money for gas too. For someone who does general commercial and residential landscaping (would you call them posers too?) have no use for additional weight, dually disesel pick-ups and massive trailers to eat at their bottom line. So there's one reason.

You do remember we're talking about CUTs here right?

 

[_RaT_]

Aluminum alloys, selected properly and with a decent design make stronger lighter assemblies than you can get with cast iron. For equal strength assemblies, the aluminum alloy will be much lighter but will cost significantly more.

With a proper design there are few heat problems with cast iron blocks and various structural members. Heavily worked diesels have been made of cast iron quite successfully for a while now. I think the engineering is pretty well understood. LIkewise tractors, dozers, earth movers etc.

Irrespective of any 4x4 vs 4x2 arguments, most tractors used beyond lawn mower or ego massager duty for agricultural posers NEED to be heavy to git 'er done. Weight means traction and ET (elapsed time) in a test of acceleration is not a central concern in tractor usage or design. If you need weight why build from aluminum and then add weight? You pay a double whammy cost penalty.

There is lots of talk about filling the rear tires, adding wheel weights in back and adding front weights. Making parts out of appropriate aluminum alloys strong enough for the job costs more than making parts strong enough to do the job out of cast iron. Does it not strike anyone as odd that you would want to pay more to get a light tractor made with aluminum assemblies and then pay yet more to add weights to get it heavy enough to do the work? Why?

Maybe for lawnmower duty aluminum would be good as less weight would not rut so easily and not tear up the turf so much when mowing the lawn. So there is likely a niche or two for lightweight tractors.

I am open minded though and would be pleased to hear anyone's argument as to why lighter is better in the vast majority of cases where tractors are employed to do more than mow the lawn. Please carefully explain the part about the advantages of paying extra to get a light weight tractor and then paying extra again to weight it so it can do real work. It can't be that someone just woke up and realized that heat transfer was a big tractor problem that had gone unrecognized for decades or that tractors are too heavy for most tasks.

Pat

Great post Pat. I guess having the option of running a light tractor for those times where traction and less impact are important and then being able to alter the configuration via weights or loading when maximum tractions is desired as another option.

 

[Volfandt]

It can't be that someone just woke up and realized that heat transfer was a big tractor problem that had gone unrecognized for decades or that tractors are too heavy for most tasks.

Pat

I don't know about someone just wakeing up but heat transfer became a major issue with the proliferation of the HST in all sizes of tractors
And if you want to dissapate heat, cast aluminum does a much better job than cast iron.....

Soil compaction comes to mind as a negative of useing too heavy of a tractor. Especially for those of us with a high clay content which requires several passes to break the sod up.

It's much easier to add weight when needed than to have a machine thats too heavy to perform the task at hand as most of us have to multi task our machines.

Volfandt

 

[Toolguy]

The ability to engage 4WD drive for the times when you need more traction goes a long way towards eliminating the need to add weight. CUTs are the best of both worlds. Light when you want a light footprint and 4WD for when you need traction. Long live Aluminum!

 

[ronjhall]

Could someone check the part numbers of the axle housings and see if they are different than the B7800 and B2910.?

The part numbers for the B3030 are different from the others.