Any members into solar enegery

[Budweiser John]

Several weeks ago my wife and I attended a local Home and builders show and struck up a conversation with a guy representing a local solar enegery co. His pitch was quite interesting and included tax savings, enegery savings and increased property values. Bottom line, we agreed to an on-site (farm) evaluation and proposal.

The guy is scheduled to come out next week and make the formal presentation. Although familiar with electricity and it痴 distribution, I know nothing about solar enegery production. As far as tax concensquences we have a CPA firm we致e used for the last 30 years.
I would sincerely appreciate any member input both positive or negative on your experience with solar energy.
We are not looking to 礎e off the grid per say but claims of saving up to 50% on annual energery costs does get one痴 attention.
For those who are wondering, my location is central lower Michigan.

B. John

 

[plowhog]

Solar can be very good, but a lot of solar sales people try to talk you into leasing as that makes it an easier sale for them. Generally, leases for solar should be avoided as: a) what you are leasing is purchased at full retail instead of a negotiated price, b) the lease costs are higher than outright purchase, and c) your property will get liened by the lease company who will typically require their approval of a new buyer if you ever decide to sell.

I think solar is good but requires a LOT of homework to make a good decision.

 

[farmeratheart]

We’ve had solar panels on our roof since July of 2010. A very modest 4kW array of 20 panels. We bought the system and had it installed. We produce about 90% of our total electric use for the year on average. Using very conservative numbers for payback I figure that the system will have paid for itself in 3 more years. The solar debate has raged on TBN many times and makes for interesting reading. We love our installation and experience.

Frank

 

[teejk]

There are a lot of calculators on the internet. IMHO, solar makes sense where it makes sense. As far as I can tell central Wisconsin fails that test. Too far north.

 

[Coyote machine]

Bring whatever proposal you're given here, then we can advise you further. I have 30 collectors on my barn for electrical generation, and two domestic water solar collectors from 2009. Also have a Sonnen 16Kw battery storage system for backup electric. The power company pays me +/- 6 cents/kW hour I generate against any bill I may have with them, for 10 years. I know a fair amount about solar, and worked in designing off peak salt storage systems in the late 70's on a $1/2 million research project for the DOE.
Don't sign any contracts 'till you bring the details here first, JMHO.:thumbsup:

 

[RNeumann]

A lot depends on how the local and state utility treats the power you are giving back. If you have tiered utility rate and you continually get into say the third and higher rate brackets and your in an area with high solar yield then it may make sense.
As an example- when I was in California with crazy electrical rates and a warm/hot climate getting enough solar to keep me in the lower bracket makes sense. But now that I’m way north in Idaho it makes no sense even though I have all electric heat!!! The electric rates are low and the amount of infrastructure needed would be cost prohibitive.

Also remember panels have a life span. So the lease to own BS is basically them saying they own them until they cost more to remove or replace. I also would put them on my roof if I had any land at all. Make a carport or woodshed or something- as long as it wasn’t on my roof!

 

[EddieWalker]

If the tax incentives are there, and you have triple checked the numbers, it might be worthwhile. Most of them come from China, and China has announced a reduction in what they will spend on supplementing the production costs, which will create an increase at the retail end. They also have a limited life span, so when you calculate your savings, be sure to remember that it's only for the life of the panels, and then you either replace them, or throw them away.

When I looked into it, there was no savings to me, since the tax incentives where based on the amount I paid in interest on my home loan. Since my home and land are paid for, I don't have a right off on a mortgage to deduct the cost of the solar, or green energy costs.

 

[techman]

I installed a 40 panel, 9.2 KW solar system in the fall of '11. I shopped a bit but decided to do the install myself. I work for a company that, at the time, made solar panels, so I got a good price on them. I was also able to buy most of the major components (inverter, racking system) from a distributor who handled our panels. So I basically got most of the big ticket items for the cost to an installer. After all available local and federal tax credits I paid $ 10K out of pocket. It would have been $ 30K from a retail installer. I am happy to say that the beginning of this year I hit break-even, so my energy use reductions are money in my pocket. We have a 2800 sq-ft house, all electric, ground source heat pumps, 2 fridges plus freezer, pool plus. I paid on average $ 100/month ($1200/yr) for electric. I also collect solar energy credits from SREC Trade who auctions them to states to meet renewable mandates for energy. The credits started at about $ 75/mwh, but quickly dropped to under $ 5/mwh. They have rebounded to about $ 12/mwh recently. My total income from these credits is $ 1400 in six and a half months. The biggest benefit is that our state has "net metering" which means that I get credit for excess energy at the same price that I pay for electric. So power I have in excess of use runs the meter backwards. Some states and/or local utilities do not use net metering, so if you have excess power you either get no credit, or KWH credit at a much lower rate than you buy at. I considered a bigger system, but utility rules here treat any system over 10 KW to be a generation facility, so you do not get net metering and are paid for excess power at the current market price of generation (net rate is about $ 0.12-0.16/ kwh, generation rate about $ 0.04-0.06/ kwh).

I am very pleased with my system, but I know that the price breaks I received are not the norm for most people. One big change, however, is that my panels cost me $ 1.92/watt when I bought them and today panels are under $ 1.00/watt. That makes systems more affordable than in the past. So far no failures, no maintenance issues (panels are rain cleaned) and the only change is having to mow around the array.

I am not a fan of the current lease schemes. They can lower bills somewhat, and little to no up-front cash, but you will save more over the life of the system if you can afford to purchase. DIY saves a lot but may not be possible in some localities, so check.

paul

 

[markieb]

We’ve had solar panels on our roof since July of 2010. A very modest 4kW array of 20 panels. We bought the system and had it installed. We produce about 90% of our total electric use for the year on average. Using very conservative numbers for payback I figure that the system will have paid for itself in 3 more years. The solar debate has raged on TBN many times and makes for interesting reading. We love our installation and experience.

Frank

What size battery reserve do you have in place to store the juice?

Thanks!

 

[teejk]

I installed a 40 panel, 9.2 KW solar system in the fall of '11. I shopped a bit but decided to do the install myself. I work for a company that, at the time, made solar panels, so I got a good price on them. I was also able to buy most of the major components (inverter, racking system) from a distributor who handled our panels. So I basically got most of the big ticket items for the cost to an installer. After all available local and federal tax credits I paid $ 10K out of pocket. It would have been $ 30K from a retail installer. I am happy to say that the beginning of this year I hit break-even, so my energy use reductions are money in my pocket. We have a 2800 sq-ft house, all electric, ground source heat pumps, 2 fridges plus freezer, pool plus. I paid on average $ 100/month ($1200/yr) for electric. I also collect solar energy credits from SREC Trade who auctions them to states to meet renewable mandates for energy. The credits started at about $ 75/mwh, but quickly dropped to under $ 5/mwh. They have rebounded to about $ 12/mwh recently. My total income from these credits is $ 1400 in six and a half months. The biggest benefit is that our state has "net metering" which means that I get credit for excess energy at the same price that I pay for electric. So power I have in excess of use runs the meter backwards. Some states and/or local utilities do not use net metering, so if you have excess power you either get no credit, or KWH credit at a much lower rate than you buy at. I considered a bigger system, but utility rules here treat any system over 10 KW to be a generation facility, so you do not get net metering and are paid for excess power at the current market price of generation (net rate is about $ 0.12-0.16/ kwh, generation rate about $ 0.04-0.06/ kwh).

I am very pleased with my system, but I know that the price breaks I received are not the norm for most people. One big change, however, is that my panels cost me $ 1.92/watt when I bought them and today panels are under $ 1.00/watt. That makes systems more affordable than in the past. So far no failures, no maintenance issues (panels are rain cleaned) and the only change is having to mow around the array.

I am not a fan of the current lease schemes. They can lower bills somewhat, and little to no up-front cash, but you will save more over the life of the system if you can afford to purchase. DIY saves a lot but may not be possible in some localities, so check.

paul

Subtract all the tax credits/subsidies for the mandates...would it still make sense?