B20/21(B26) vs. L305DT

[Porshaah]

Gentlemen

Still in the process of looking for a machine which will primarily be able to dig 200 linear feet down 5ft around the house foundation to install weeping tile after which I can see landscape/grading maybe some chipping in its' future. Im using the the B20/21 as my benchmark and most desireable having been told it should be able to do the above and still not tear up the lawn. But I'm finding these machines are quite pricey (i.e just under $20K CDN) and hard to find used. I came across an L305DT FEL and other machines similar (i.e. more HP but hydraulic pump less output than an B20/21) which I'm guessing will be under $10K CDN and hoping closer to $5K (i.e. in my price range and I still need to confirm). My question is if I put an external pump on the PTO (i.e. 26HP @ PTO) to power a backhoe why wouldn't a machine like the L305DT perform better than a B20/21 or dare I say B26. It has slightly more weight which would help as a counter balance yet I still don't think it's heavy enough to tear up my front lawn (i.e. 2450#). External PTO pumps are reasonably priced (i.e. around $400 for a 21GPM 2000psi pump on Ebay) though I havn't actually spec'd them out as to what is needed for a backhoe. I've seen the L305DT on the side of the road and it's not that obtrusively big that the neighbors would complain compared to a Case 580 for example, which I believe can do the job without a doubt and are a dime a dozen. Am I missing something here or do you think the L305DT compares to the B series mentioned?

All responses welcomed and much appreciated
Bill

 

[dfkrug]

Well, you are correct that weight is an important factor in how productive
you can be with a backhoe. If you made a subframe for the L305 and
got a pump that would deliver at least 5GPM to the hoe, you could get a
usable and cheap TLB. The hoe will cost more than the tractor.

But you must realize that the B21 is optimized for TLB use, with very
manuverable short wheel base, HST, PS, and 8GPM flow. I do not know
much about the old 70s Kubota Ls, but does the 305 even have power
steering? And what about tires....doesn't the 305 have AGs? What will
THEY do to your yard? The B21 has R4s.

 

[Porshaah]

dfkrug

Thank you for your response.

I was under the impression that having flow above 10 gpm is desireable in order to have good response from the backhoe or is the unmentioned pressure a factor (i.e. TractorData.com)? The reason I ask is, I just noticed that the valve flow on the B20 is 12.7gpm vs. 8.5gpm for the B21. Is that the same flow that is going to the backhoe and if so, does it mean that the B21's backhoe is less responsive (i.e. slower and less powerful in terms of lift and plunging) than the B20? The L305 has 6.4gpm doesn't have HST but I can't see that being much of an issue since one sits in one spot for a period of time while digging say a trench. This L305DT has R3 tires and the wheel base is about a foot longer than your B21. I believe it when you and others say their B20 or 21 performs well and is optimized for this type of work, I just can't seem to get my head around what makes one tractor perform better than another by just looking at the HP and other specs.

Thanks again
Bill

 

[dfkrug]

To run a hoe like the BT751 (on the B21), you need 5-6GPM. You do
not need the full 8+ GPM available. That's good, since you may not
want to run at full engine speed all the time.

Many tractors manufacturers quote the total hyd flow delivered
by the implement pump, even though some of that flow is diverted to
the PS. My Kioti implement flow can only be found inside the service
manual (8.3). I suspect the B20 is in the 8GPM range like the B21.

Integrated TLBs like the B21 also have a very good quick-release 4 point
frame for the hoe, as well as a single seat. The hoe is very close-mounted
to the rear of the tractor, unlike most hoes mounted on subframes on
general-purpose compact tractors (with 2 seats).

 

[MarkV]

If the house repair is a one time backhoe need you would get off much cheaper renting a mini excavator for a week and use the tractor for clean up after the dig and future landscape needs. The mini excavator is a better tool for digging along a foundation wall, though it can be done with a backhoe.

MarkV

 

[BruceWard]

The B21 has two hydraulic systems, one for the backhoe and one for steering. My B21 is strong enough to drag itself up hill when using the backhoe when sitting on the stabilizers and bucket. I was surprised when I setup downhill from a stump grabbed the stump with the backhoe and ended up 2' higher up the hill.

It is narrow and convienent in small places.

The used price is high, but it will also be high when you sell it.

 

[rbargeron]

Couple points about the L305 - if it has the original Kubota 1720 loader, it may have an external front pump that would run a backhoe attachment fine. Also, the 1720 loader has a quite-robust frame running back to the rear axle that would be relatively easy to adapt a backhoe subframe to. If the loader has a big reservoir tank on the right side by the control valve, then it probably has the front pump. If not, the loader is running from the internal hydraulics which would be slower. For a part-time job doing foundation drainage, it might seem fast enough, if the backhoe has reasonably small cylinders.

 

[dfkrug]

The B21 has two hydraulic systems, one for the backhoe and one for steering.

The B21 has a single implement pump with a flow divider connected to it.
The implement pump provides all hyd flow for the FEL, 3PH, and hoe. The
divider sends hyd fluid to the power steering, and the excess (when the
steering wheel is not being turned) to the HST charge pump. I have
completely taken apart all the hydraulics on a B21.

If I recall from my service manual, the implement pump total flow was
12+ GPM max, with 8.5GPM available to implements and the rest for the PS.
However, the Kubota web site lists the B21 as having dual pumps, but
includes the HST flow in the total. That does not make sense to me. It
says "total GPM" is 7.13 for the FEL/hoe, 1.32 for the PS, and 4.6 for the
HST. HST pump flow is not normally included with implement pump flow and
counting the HST main pump as a second pump in a "dual pump" system
is nonsense. I suppose if you counted the HST charge pump, it would be a
triple pump system.....

Anyway, there are tons of B21s for sale nationwide now. I am amazed at
how cheap they are, no doubt due to the decline in construction.