BANANA BALE SHAPE PROBLEMS WITH NH 570 BALER

[coondle]

I have a NH 570 baler that under certain conditions cannot bale a straight bale. In parts of Western Australia we grow cereal oats to cut and bale for livestock feed. Our rainfall is too low to grow sufficient grasses to bale what we call meadow hay.
Several years ago I had only 115mm rain or about 4 1/2 inches of rain in the growing season and as a result straw strength was very low. To compound the issue our conditions when the hay is ready for baling are very dry so much so baling can often only be done at night when humidity is high and hay moisture content rises to 10% and above and is below 18%.
In the conditions of low straw strength I cannot bale straight bales and in the lower moisture levels say 13% and below the bales are such a
banana shape that they fall apart on trying to pick them up even by hand and impossible in a bale bundler.
The bales are underpacked on the left side and overpacked on the right (Knife side).
I have ensured that there is slippage on the pickup drive belt to prevent overfeeding (one cause of bananas) and ensured feed rates are low with lowering ground speed to be only baling about 100 bales per hour (450/hr at 25kg is no problem with good straw strength).
I have ensured rotor to rotor and rotor to packer fork and packer fork to plunger timing is such that there is minimal opportunity for spring back out of the chamber.
I have ensured that the packer fork is adjusted to maximise the hay in the left side of the bale.
I have adjusted the bale wedge arrangement to try and skew the bale the other way. (Little difference).
I have installed a left hand feeder wedge and a grass hay feeder kit to the baler. Each of these helped marginally.
In desperation I fitted another blade to the rotor set delivering hay to the packer fork. This modification helped substantially but did not solve the problem.
Examination of the bales shows that there is a portion of hay in every stroke (each biscuit or slice) that only sits under the right string so leaving the left side under packed with hay. The offending short packed portion shows up under the string away from the knot end meaning that the hay in the rear of the cross-transfer area (between pickup and baling chamber) is not being carried into the bale chamber by the packer forks.
I have owned the machine since new (2006) but the problem only arises to be an issue in some seasons although there are some short straws under the right string even in the best seasons. I have tried a lot of other adjustments but these made no difference so returned those trials to standard settings.
I have had the dealers out and representatives of New Holland (while I was away) but to no avail. Another farmer in a nearby district bought their machine in a low strength year about 2008 and returned the machine and parked it in the dealers.
Does anyone have any suggestions on how to cure this problem other than buying a different brand of machine.
Any feedback from others experiencing this problem and any help/solutions would be appreciated

 

[SPYDERLK]

That is very well reported :thumbsup: You seem to be well versed in the terminology and Iv learned a bit about what to call things. If I perceive correctly the problem is that some hay is springing back out of the chamber before the ram can set it. Even tho youve biased to the left as much as you can it isnt enuf to even the bale. ... Albeit unconventional, perhaps you could tailor the bias to your situation by blowing air into the chamber to resist the springback. A sparkless fan or centrifugal blower could be rigged? :confused3:
,,,You seem to have tried everything else.
larry

 

[Tx Jim]

coondle
Have you ever tried raking a larger windrow? Several yrs back before I bought my sq baler I hired on 2 different occasions to people to bale hay for me with NH balers and both made banana shaped bales. I stopped the baler operators and ask them to correct the shape of the bales and they tried but failed. I know own a JD 347 sq baler that I just finished baling 25 acres of drought stricken hay that made only 196 bales and these bales were 'square"(rectangular).

 

[flusher]

If nothing else works for your problem, I'd try Bale Skiis

BaleSkiis Baler Liner

Good luck.

 

[Tx Jim]

I have worked on & baled hay with sq balers since the mid 60's and I can't see how bale Skiis liner can cause a baler making banana bales to start making sq bales just from the Skiis being installed with no other adjustment made to baler,windrow size or travel speed. I'd sure like a demonstration. Yes I know exactly what baler bale Skiis are.

 

[coondle]

Thanks for the reply SPYDERLK, I too thought at first it was spring back but the left hand feeder wedge is there to prevent that and it is only the portion of the hay travalling behind the rotors and thus at the rear of the packer forks that does not get pushed under the left string.
My reading of the situation is that with low straw strength the rotors and packer forks are breaking through the hay being fed into the baling chamber and that portion of the hay behind the rotors /packer forks is being left behind while the rest is transferred into the chamber.
There is a stream of hay about 9 inches deep behind the rear rotor/packer fork alignment that is left behind and a varying (according to conditions) amount trails the rest of the stroke.
I forgot to mention that I had made modifications to the area between the knife mounting and the right side of the plunger (ram) because I first suspected the action of the plunger withdrawing from the chamber was catching hay on the protruding rear edge of the knife. This made not a jot of difference because as I later found the extra hay was at the end f each biscuit that first exits the baler.
Thanks again for taking the trouble to reply

 

[coondle]

Thanks for the suggestion Tx Jim.
I have contract baled very poor crops, with production as low as 25 to 30 bales per acre (600 kg dry hay per acre).
Despite the dry conditions I have referred to, the hay quantity was around 80 bales per acre or two tonnes (2000kg dry hay) per acre.
I have had the problem even at around 120 bales or 3000kg dry hay per acre. My best production areas go to over 240 bales (6 000kg) per acre with windrows 2 to 3 feet wide and 2 feet high with bales coming out about 7 or 8 metres apart (22 to 26 feet)
I know I mix metric and imperial measures but I think you understand.
I cut with a NH 1411 discbine behind a Case 2290 tractor, cutter width is 10ft 4 inches. I have baled behind a NH 1431 discbine (13ft) and same result but needed to drop ground speed to prevent over feeding.
A nearby farmer has two JD balers, don't know the series, and a NH570. The JD's do not have any trouble with bale shape, I opine because their cross transfer from pickup to packer fork is by a spiral thus only the packer fork pushes the hay once whereas the NH transfer system has two rotor sets and the packer fork working on virtually the same track in the hay.
My theory is the each of the rotors break a path through some of the hay under transfer and the packer fork has to then work on hay already damaged so cannot pack it in the chamber properly.
I am at wits end with this and if I could swap out of the NH to a JD for minimal outlay even to a JD of lower capacity I would in a heartbeat.
Our baler prices are much higher than you enjoy, a nearby dealer has used a JD 348 for $26000.
The local JD's I have observed have produced very good bale shape but have f transfer difficulty on very dry hay and straw but notches cut into the cross-transfer spiral seems to overcome this issue. My experience is that the 348 cannot bale as fast as the 570 in ideal (strong straw strength) conditions hence I think the nearby farmers mix of balers, I think he does 50 to 70,000 small squares annually plus thousands of rolls.
The earlier NH balers (317 an Australian produced machine) had a different cross-transfer and packing system being the same as a 568 which I think is a North American model. These machines have no problem with bale shaspe even on low straw strength hasy.
THanks for your suggestion

 

[coondle]

Bale skiis are not known to me and thanks for bringing them to my attention, I will investigate further.
My problem is not wet hay or springback, it appears not all material gets into the chamber for the plunger to do its job and the holding of the forming bale by the bale dogs is not an issue.
Thanks for your suggestion and as I have said I will investigate further.

 

[Tx Jim]

How fast in MPH are you baling? What is the average weight of the bales? Have you tried altering which side of the pickup that the hay is fed into?? Have you tried altering the timing of the packer forks? 80 sq bales to the acre would be a bumper crop here in the Texas desert.

 

[BeeferMan]

You problem is almost certainly a feeding problem. You need to get enough hay at the feeder forks to fill the bale chamber evenly. Light windrows will result in not enough hay in the feeder for the forks to push hay all the way to the left side of the bale chamber. Your 570 needs to be fed a lot of hay to keep it happy. Make larger windrows, bump the tractor up a gear or two. I can't remember if the 570 has an adjustable back panel in the pickup - if it does, move it as close to the front as you can. You could try adjusting the feeder forks, but it sounds like you've got too much of a feeding problem for just that to work.