Barndominium/Shop or "real" House?

[LittleBittyBigJohn]

The water heats the pex tubing -> the pex tubing conducts heat to both the sub-floor and aluminum plates -> the warmed aluminum plates and the plywood sub-floor radiate infrared light downward away from their surfaces -> the foil bubble wrap reflects that infrared light back up towards the sub-floor and plates adding additional energy. The infrared light will bounce back and forth between the plates and the foil, but some of that energy gets absorbed by the plywood subfloor, some of it diassapates into other parts of the structure like the open web trusses and is lost via conduction out to the OSB sheathing and then the steel siding which is exposed to the outer elements.

The foil bubble insulation R value is pitiful, only like R2, but, the foil radiating the infrared light back up is the important part.

Underneath the foil bubble wrap will be fiberglass insulation to keep heat in the shop & garage produced by the pex in the concrete floors. Some of that heat will of course migrate up and heat the rooms above.

I would not be using this type of heat if I didn't have pex imbeded into the concrete in the shop/workshop below the second level living space.

View attachment 4456416

This is the same stuff I have in my metal shop building. It does a really good job keeping the heat out in the summer time. I could see how this would be good for reflecting the heat back up to the floor. But you are correct about the R-Value. It's not really any insulation at all.

 

[ETD66SS]

Your understanding of how it works is a lot better than mine.

I've read a little on reflecting light for heat, but I honestly don't believe any of it. I'm very basic and simple thinking. Sometimes that works for me, sometimes it ends up costing more, taking longer and nothing is any better.

My brain is telling me that I would want to stop every bit of heat leaving the PEX that's going downwards, away from the floor. To me, it looks more like you have a radiator type design that will cool the PEX with air all around it instead of a heater that will focus the heat where you want it.

Well, heat is light, it's just light you can't see. The foil still reflects it etc.

If you fill that cavity with foam insulation, you're conducting more heat to the truss lumber then to the outer walls of the building.

Having that air gap and the foil reflectance parallel to the sub-floor above it puts more of the heat into the plywood.

Also, having bubble insulation that is black on the bottom side and silver on the top will absorb any heat from the garage/workshop below that makes in through the fiberglass insulation then radiate that heat towards the plywood upper living space subfloor.

 

[ETD66SS]

As I live in New York as you do, I would advise you to build the A-frame
as you could heat the place with a coal stoker boiler using top fed
steam heat very economically with cast iron panel radiators or used
cast iron radiators from an architectural salvage company.

I do not remember the name of the company in Auburn, NY that has
salvaged radiators for sale.

I would contact Central New York Coverit for a long term hoop shed with
wooden timber supports for a shop that you could heat with steam using
a steam to hot air garage heater very easily and economically.

I'm already 1 year into my Barndo build. The House would have easily been $200k more than my current build, with zero shop space. It just didn't make sense (for me financially & time-wise), even though I liked my house design.

 

[WinterDeere]

Yes, but my HVAC installer who does radiant floor heating told me to use T50 staples, as the pneumatic staplers can blast the staples right through the transfer plates. They are very thin aluminum. I assume however the air pressure can be adjusted.

Any good 1/4" crown stapler made in the last 20 years has an adjustable foot, the height of which is adjusted to set the finished height of the staple. Very consistent, only takes a few shots to dial it in to where every staple sits just right at the surface of the plate without blasting thru.

There are older and cheaper staplers that lack this adjustable foot, leaving the user to try to set depth by adjusting air pressure. If you ever come across such a POS, do yourself a favor and just throw it straight into the garbage. There's just no way to get consistent sets in a media as inconsistent as OSB or even plywood, by trying to vary air pressure.

Any good nailer has way more power than is required, and uses a postive stop (e.g. foot height) as the means of achieving consistent nail or staple set depths. The excess power ensures you'll still get a consistent set when driving the nail or staple into a knot or other obstacle.

 

[ETD66SS]

I'm not finding any T50 staple guns that have depth adjustment other than how hard the hammer hits.

I'd have to step up to a 18 guage stapler such as the Metabo: Amazon.com : narrow crown stapler for mechanical depth adjustment.

I'll have to think about that. So far any instructional videos I see on these transfer plates are guys using a T50 cordless stapler. Mine does have an adjuster for how hard the staple is whacked, but it seems like the issues are the varying density of the OSB and the lack of a chisel point on staples with legs greater than 3/8".

Also, those 18 GA staple guns either pneumatic or cordless are way bigger than the T50 gun I have now, I won't be able to fit it next to the open web trusses to get a straight shot through the plates.

Interestingly, the website I bought the plates from state to use T50 3/8" leg staples with an electric stapler or T50 1/2" leg staples with a pnuematic stapler.

Just seems like with an electric staple gun the 3/8" chisel points are a must, any longer there is no chisel point and they just don't drive into the OSB reliably.

 

[WinterDeere]

T50's don't have depth stops, as far as I know. I'm speaking of pneumatic 18 gauge staplers (or passload equivalents).

There's no problem fitting them between joists, mine is only 3" wide. I have staped many things just as you show here, you just hold it in-line with the joists when firing your staples.

It's an option, since you were describing problems with driving the T50's, and the 18 gauge staples will hold better into OSB. But if the T50's are working for you and you already have the tool, then carry on!

 

[ETD66SS]

T50's don't have depth stops, as far as I know. I'm speaking of pneumatic 18 gauge staplers (or passload equivalents).

There's no problem fitting them between joists, mine is only 3" wide. I have staped many things just as you show here, you just hold it in-line with the joists when firing your staples.

It's an option, since you were describing problems with driving the T50's, and the 18 gauge staples will hold better into OSB. But if the T50's are working for you and you already have the tool, then carry on!

Yeah, maybe the pneumatic ones are smaller. I'd probably be looking at a cordless.

Which is too large for the area I have to work in.

I'm going to try stainless steel T50 1/2" staples today to see if they work any better than the normal steel ones.

 

[WinterDeere]

Yeah, maybe the pneumatic ones are smaller. I'd probably be looking at a cordless.

View attachment 4466629

Which is too large for the area I have to work in.

I'm going to try stainless steel T50 1/2" staples today to see if they work any better than the normal steel ones.

Looks like it's less than 3" wide. Your joist spacing is what.. 16" or 24"? I don't see the problem, unless there's some reason you need to hold it perpendicular to the joists.

 

[ETD66SS]

Looks like it's less than 3" wide. Your joist spacing is what.. 16" or 24"? I don't see the problem, unless there's some reason you need to hold it perpendicular to the joists.

Nah, it's parallel gets close to the joists, hard to get a straight on shot if I have to tip the gun etc.

 

[WinterDeere]

I think you'd be fine. I get mine into spaces much tighter than that.

Like I said, it's an option if your T50's aren't working out. But if you're happy with the T50's and aren't looking for an excuse to buy another tool, then stick with what you've got!

One big advantage of the pneumatics is hand fatigue. I've squeezed off a lot of T50 staples, and I usually start to get blisters in the webbing between thumb and index finger, after awhile. The pneumatic stapler is a light single-trigger pull.