Battery based electric vehicles of today and tomorrow.

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PuffyC

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After reading that article I get the impression the author isn't a fan of the Salton Sea:

"...the whole lake became a fetid, foul-smelling death-pond, littered with carcasses and bones and swarming with flies. I’ve been to the Salton Sea, a number of years back, and it is without a doubt one of the most revolting, miserable, unpleasant places I have ever been."

and

"If you fell unconscious in LA and woke up in a rowboat in the middle of the Salton Sea, it would be entirely reasonable for you to think you had died and gone straight to Hell."

Sounds like the perfect place for a lithium mine.
 
  
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Gale Hawkins

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After looking at the fires in Western US the floods in West Europe the unrest in Africa and other parts of the country clearly moving from fossil fuel is not the number one priority for the world today.

Yet it will be on the front burner for the rest of our lives. One positive thing that I see that Western Nations are deciding to build their own EVs and make their own batteries for the EVS. This would be positive for many things long term. With shipping cost getting so expensive to move goods across the oceans it is a positive reason to build more of our products in our own countries.

I think as a baby boomer it is hard to realize that things will not always be getting better for the poor and lifting more people up out of poverty in Western nations with declining populations. I am watching Japan and Italy to get a picture of what it's going to be like in the United States in the future population wise and the problems with a declining population.
 
  
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While the air is thin to support this level of EV rebates they are starting to grasp EV makers are not even planning to build the number of batteries required for their stated EV sales forecasts.

The new EV makers like GM, Ford, VW, Toyota, etc seem to forget years ago the first Giga EV factory was not to build EVs but to make lithium ion batteries.

While Tesla is technically years ahead of any other EV maker they are light years ahead when it comes to building EV car and battery factories.

Tesla today is selling everything they can build with no consumer EV rebates in place at the federal level in the USA.

That indicates there is no lack of demand for EVs but just a lack of EVs being produced.
 

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Tesla today is selling everything they can build with no consumer EV rebates in place at the federal level in the USA.

That indicates there is no lack of demand for EVs but just a lack of EVs being produced.
And no advertising. Tesla has never advertised. Only hosts their own website. No Google Ad links. Nothing.
 

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If Tesla had to price their vehicles high enough to make a profit without making hundreds of millions of dollars on carbon credits each year, would they still sell as many vehicles? Are the "big 3" the ones buying the carbon credits? In the future as the "big 3" and others bring up their overall fleet mpg they will need to purchase less and less carbon credits. How will that effect Tesla?
 

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If Tesla had to price their vehicles high enough to make a profit without making hundreds of millions of dollars on carbon credits each year, would they still sell as many vehicles? Are the "big 3" the ones buying the carbon credits? In the future as the "big 3" and others bring up their overall fleet mpg they will need to purchase less and less carbon credits. How will that effect Tesla?
Is not carbon credits or MPG. CARB states require "clean vehicle" credits to sell certain vehicles. Other states do not. Tesla does not discriminate against buyers in states such as Alabama where they get no credits for a sale.

Any manufacturer can earn credits, only have to build to spec. Subaru builds everything to PZEV (partial zero emission vehicle) qualification so as to require fewer clean vehicle credits. Not hybrid or anything, but apparently meets the requirement over and above EPA minimum. Flex Fuel capable also lowers the credits needed to sell.

If you do not want to have to buy clean vehicle credits all you have to do is 1) build compliant vehicles for CARB states, or 2) quit selling new vehicles in CARB states. That Tesla collects revenue from other vehicle makers is totally at the control of those manufacturers.
 

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Is not carbon credits or MPG. CARB states require "clean vehicle" credits to sell certain vehicles. Other states do not. Tesla does not discriminate against buyers in states such as Alabama where they get no credits for a sale.

Any manufacturer can earn credits, only have to build to spec. Subaru builds everything to PZEV (partial zero emission vehicle) qualification so as to require fewer clean vehicle credits. Not hybrid or anything, but apparently meets the requirement over and above EPA minimum. Flex Fuel capable also lowers the credits needed to sell.

If you do not want to have to buy clean vehicle credits all you have to do is 1) build compliant vehicles for CARB states, or 2) quit selling new vehicles in CARB states. That Tesla collects revenue from other vehicle makers is totally at the control of those manufacturers.

Facing Emission Fines, Ford Becomes Ravenous for Carbon Credits


Other Automakers Paid Tesla a Record $428 Million Last Quarter​


 
  
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If Tesla had to price their vehicles high enough to make a profit without making hundreds of millions of dollars on carbon credits each year, would they still sell as many vehicles? Are the "big 3" the ones buying the carbon credits? In the future as the "big 3" and others bring up their overall fleet mpg they will need to purchase less and less carbon credits. How will that effect Tesla?
Do you realize you are posting fake news about Tesla?
 
  
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Car and Driver?
Who are the EV makers selling EVs at a net profit today in your view building 3 new EV only factories on fresh dirt in 3 years?
 
  
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NoTrespassing

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Who are the EV makers selling EVs at a net profit today in your view building 3 new EV only factories on fresh dirt in 3 years?
Answering a question with a question, I see. I'll go back to my original post. This is a serious question. I have a small position in Ford and am following most automakers.

If Tesla had to price their vehicles high enough to make a profit without making hundreds of millions of dollars on carbon credits each year, would they still sell as many vehicles? Are the "big 3" the ones buying the carbon credits? In the future as the "big 3" and others bring up their overall fleet mpg they will need to purchase less and less carbon credits. How will that effect Tesla?
 
  
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Please explain. Thanks.
If other car companies can save expenses by buying something that Tesla has created inadvertently in the process of doing business it
is earned income tax wise.
 

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If other car companies can save expenses by buying something that Tesla has created inadvertently in the process of doing business it
is earned income tax wise.
I think the question was if Tesla wasn't making hundreds of millions of dollars by selling credits to other car makers, could Tesla still afford to sell as many cars. There was a nice write up on it in Car and Driver. How was that fake news?
 
  
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Gale Hawkins

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CNN is a website. Google it.

Answering a question with a question, I see. I'll go back to my original post. This is a serious question. I have a small position in Ford and am following most automakers.

If Tesla had to price their vehicles high enough to make a profit without making hundreds of millions of dollars on carbon credits each year, would they still sell as many vehicles? Are the "big 3" the ones buying the carbon credits? In the future as the "big 3" and others bring up their overall fleet mpg they will need to purchase less and less carbon credits. How will that effect Tesla?
So you aware Ford is losing billions trying to make EVS to compete with Tesla. Are you saying carbon credits are not real? Why would other car companies finance the growth of Tesla by buy carbon credits? Why do you think carbon credits are fake? How could Tesla get away with financing growth from other car makers if carbon credits are fake?
 
  
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I think the question was if Tesla wasn't making hundreds of millions of dollars by selling credits to other car makers, could Tesla still afford to sell as many cars. There was a nice write up on it in Car and Driver. How was that fake news?
I would like to read that article if somebody has a link to it.

Over the last year Tesla has raised billions in stock sales and that is peanuts compared to what other car makers are paying them for carbon credits. At the point when Tesla was looking for a buyer because they were out of money yes the carbon credits were critical. Today they are financed well beyond what they get from carbon credits besides carbon credits are a temporary thing if the other car companies ever start making EVs.

The fake news is that Tesla today needs carbon credits to grow faster.
 

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So you aware Ford is losing billions trying to make EVS to compete with Tesla. Are you saying carbon credits are not real? Why would other car companies finance the growth of Tesla by buy carbon credits? Why do you think carbon credits are fake? How could Tesla get away with financing growth from other car makers if carbon credits are fake?
Wow... I don't really know where to start here but I'll try.

I never said carbon credits were fake. Where do you get that? They are very real but as legacy auto makers continue to increase the overall mileage of their fleets they will be buying less carbon credits from Tesla. OK, I give up...
 

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I would like to read that article if somebody has a link to it.

Over the last year Tesla has raised billions in stock sales and that is peanuts compared to what other car makers are paying them for carbon credits. At the point when Tesla was looking for a buyer because they were out of money yes the carbon credits were critical. Today they are financed well beyond what they get from carbon credits besides carbon credits are a temporary thing if the other car companies ever start making EVs.

The fake news is that Tesla today needs carbon credits to grow faster.
I already posted the link.
 

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I would like to read that article if somebody has a link to it.

Over the last year Tesla has raised billions in stock sales and that is peanuts compared to what other car makers are paying them for carbon credits. At the point when Tesla was looking for a buyer because they were out of money yes the carbon credits were critical. Today they are financed well beyond what they get from carbon credits besides carbon credits are a temporary thing if the other car companies ever start making EVs.

The fake news is that Tesla today needs carbon credits to grow faster.
He posted it a few posts up in this post.


Tesla made $428M off of selling credits in just the 2nd quarter of this year.

There's nothing fake about it.
 

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MoKelly

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Tesla's Automotive Division made well over $1.5Billion with a 'B' in just credit sales in 2020.


It's not fake news.

Tesla’s CFO freely admitted that w/o regulatory credit sales they would NOT have made their first ever profit in 2020. They would still have lost money despite roughly $30 billion (with a B) in sales.

That is some huge cost base.

MoKelly
 

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Tesla’s CFO freely admitted that w/o regulatory credit sales they would NOT have made their first ever profit in 2020. They would still have lost money despite roughly $30 billion (with a B) in sales.

That is some huge cost base.

MoKelly
Yep. I think the point NoTresspassing was a very legitimate question:

As other car makers' products become more fuel efficient, they'll be purchasing fewer credits from all places, including Tesla. Tesla relies(d) heavily on selling those credits. If that revenue stream dries up, will it effect Tesla?
 
  
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He posted it a few posts up in this post.


Tesla made $428M off of selling credits in just the 2nd quarter of this year.

There's nothing fake about it.
Yes it true Tesla's competition are key to Tesla's profitable due them using Tesla's carbon credits to increase their own profitability.

Today it is false thinking to think Tesla needs credits and rebates to produce and sell more EVs.

Now Tesla selling carbon credits has cost the company billions and billions of dollars.

Tesla's board set up Elon Musk's compensation based on corporate profitable. By default the millions in carbon credit sales has lead Musk to becoming like the 3rd richest in the USA.

Another thing the other car companies enabled by buying carbon credits that Tesla earned by not selling fossil fueled vehicles was to make Tesla a member of the S&P 500. This move was/is worth billions if not trillions to Tesla shareholders in the decades to come when EV sales are a minor part of Tesla's annual sales.
 

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After reading that article I get the impression the author isn't a fan of the Salton Sea:

"...the whole lake became a fetid, foul-smelling death-pond, littered with carcasses and bones and swarming with flies. I’ve been to the Salton Sea, a number of years back, and it is without a doubt one of the most revolting, miserable, unpleasant places I have ever been."

and

"If you fell unconscious in LA and woke up in a rowboat in the middle of the Salton Sea, it would be entirely reasonable for you to think you had died and gone straight to Hell."

Sounds like the perfect place for a lithium mine.
The Salton Sea basin was desert until the 1905 flood on the Colorado, and water level has been supplemented by agricultural flood irrigation runoff. Water shortages have pretty much ended that, with farmers going to more efficient sprinklers or even sensor controlled drip irrigation. In the absence of another flood, unlikely while they refill all the empty reservoirs on the Colorado, a 30' sea level rise in the Gulf of California would overtop the Colorado River Delta and spill sea water into the basin. That would raise the water level about 250' and cover up all those nasty salt flats. For that matter, they could dig a canal right now that would fill the whole basin.
 
  
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Tesla's Automotive Division made well over $1.5Billion with a 'B' in just credit sales in 2020.


It's not fake news.
Thanks for posting. That finally explained the carbon credits thing to me. It is good to know buying and selling can change one's tax bill.
 
  
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Not fake, just misleading. He conflates European regulations without mentioning that none of them apply in the US.
Ok I get it now.

If someone sold me a fake diamond I would say it was highly misleading. :)
 
  
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If Tesla had to price their vehicles high enough to make a profit without making hundreds of millions of dollars on carbon credits each year, would they still sell as many vehicles? Are the "big 3" the ones buying the carbon credits? In the future as the "big 3" and others bring up their overall fleet mpg they will need to purchase less and less carbon credits. How will that effect Tesla?

I do not know of any USA based car makers buying carbon credits from Tesla.

While your first question is unknowable what we do know is Tesla has raised prices recently by $1,000 or more up to $10,000 per car and they're still booked into the future sales wise.

As to your last question again we have no way of knowing that but Tesla has stated that carbon credit sales are going away and they have not talked about going bankrupt because of it.

Today we all know talking about Tesla's carbon credit income is nothing more than a red herring. They are predicted to double sales or number of units made in 2022 to two million units.
 

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I do not know of any USA based car makers buying carbon credits from Tesla.

While your first question is unknowable what we do know is Tesla has raised prices recently by $1,000 or more up to $10,000 per car and they're still booked into the future sales wise.

As to your last question again we have no way of knowing that but Tesla has stated that carbon credit sales are going away and they have not talked about going bankrupt because of it.

Today we all know talking about Tesla's carbon credit income is nothing more than a red herring. They are predicted to double sales or number of units made in 2022 to two million units.
How can a car MFG get carbon credits when to charge said Vehicle it almost always requires fossil fuels?
 
  
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How can a car MFG get carbon credits when to charge said Vehicle it almost always requires fossil fuels?
From another post it seems to be related to tailpipe emission test results only. From what I have been reading today it seems like the carbon credits helps fossil fuel vehicle manufacturers keep their doors open and not get shut down by the government because of emissions standards. Honda and FCA were the two buying carbon credits from Tesla from a Google search. GM is good thanks to the Volt/Bolt and and Ford learned the carbon credit rules early on it seems. For autos the need to buy carbon credits is quickly becoming a thing of the past because manufacturers are moving to vehicles that meet the federal standard or state standards or merging with other auto makers.
 
  
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My son has said that a Volt should work for him because of the distance he drives. I had bought into some of these myths listed here.

If I didn't already have my parts together to rebuild the Leaf I may have went with a late model Volt.

Starting in 2016 or 17 they started shipping with a lithium ion battery good for 53 miles EPA range. Most of my trips are anywhere from 28 to 40 miles round trip which wouldn't be perfect in my case not to ever use gasoline for local trips

One guy that I was talking to had his car for 18 months and burned three tanks of gas. On top of that he charged it with his rooftop solar setup.

Since Nissan bumped our range up to 150 miles with the new battery I'm very pleased with our Leaf but it is not good for your only vehicle. A plug-in hybrid could serve as the only car in the family.

In my area there's next to no charging infrastructure today. But I charge at home and that works out just fine
 

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There’s a place I frequently walk. It’s a huge botanical garden. There’s 3 free complementary charging stations for members. I walk 1+ hour. If I can talk my wife into an EV, we could charge while we walk.
Problem is, theyre going to need 50 of them by next year.
 
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